09-08-2003 17:23									#1
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We have contact with team sunshine HOORAY.

pm recieved from NuclearMaster, who is now their ambassador,

Hello Neighbour!
Hello neighbor!

Our friendly warrior-scout Goody Hut Gary has discovered your civilization!

We are overjoyed to find you and to finally meet you! We have read your many hysterical posts in the main forum and look forward to making various deals with you. All of us here at Sunshina are excited to meet and make new friends with you and we hope to establish a long and peaceful relationship with your creative and outgoing team.

We posess the technology of Alphabet and Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, and Pottery. Would you mind telling us what techonology you have so that we can work out some trades between us? And what technology are you currently researching?

We also think it would be in the most sunny interests that we sign a non-agression pact. It is mainly up to you until what time but Sunshina would think it would be best if it is until Turn 65.

I have also been wondering if you had any contacts with other civilizations?

I have eagerly volunteered to serve as your Ambassador and I am excited to get to know all of you. If you need to speak to my team please contact me at any time and I will do everything I can to help you. If you would neomail me back A.S.A.P then I want to set up a time for a chat either now or tommorow.

-Nuclear Master



I sent one back straight away accusing him of insulting us by not using proper titles and showing no respect. Then asked how much they valued their worthless lives.
It's fun bullying the hippies.
We should probably figure out what were going to do on the serious side of the game but for now I think we should all threaten and be insulted by the hippies behaviour. Maybe we should all start sending pms to NM, generally harrasing him and getting offended over sillly things.

	09-08-2003 20:50									#2
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I think we should do good cop/bad cop.

OPD = Saddam = bad cop. You get offended easily, insult them, and generally just want to stomp on their sunshinny selves.

Arnelos = Tariq Aziz = good cop. I pretend to be all sunshiny and happy and love them... and as our BEST friends, they should give us all of their gold and technology...

As for their Non-Aggression Pact, we should sign it. That way we have an agreement to break down the road

	09-08-2003 21:07									#3
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lol great idea.

I was thinking I could ask where their warrior is and wherever it is claim it's trespassing on sacred burial grounds.

	10-08-2003 00:39									#4
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Non-aggression pact would be good. Now that we know where one person is, it's time to decide who to attack and when.

	10-08-2003 13:37									#5
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Sunshine wants to do a chat.

How are we deciding to authorize treaties for the team. I'm assuming that if I chat with the leader(s) of Sunshine, I can't just make promises for our team or is that cool (because we intend to break them anyhow)?

Would an easy method be that OPD (as the current leader) should either give final approval on any "treaty" or at least give authorization for someone else to do so?

	10-08-2003 19:07									#6
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I think we should consider our options more at this point before agreeing to anything.

I's very pleased that Sunshine are the first team for us to meet, as I think they are the team we would be most suited to an alliance with.

From my experience of pbems and the other ptwdg I am of the opinion that the most important thing is MP is allies, no matter how strong you are or how good you are at the actual game nothing can compare to one email saying hey lets be allies.

I also think that sunshine/RP understand this too and would like to feel them out about a possible alliance. Although it's important first to find out if they have any other contacts.

	12-08-2003 08:06									#7
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From the Historian's Postal Service:

Nuclear Master has PM'd me to to ask if I could speak for MAST, which I cannot obviously. Therefore I am just relaying the message that he is waiting for a response and would like one soon.

	12-08-2003 10:26									#8
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I have just held a chat with Nuclear Master from Sunshine.

We worked out a trade of Warrior Code and Mysticism (from us) for Pottery and Alphabet (from them).

These are equal in the editor values and will give each side all techs possessed by the other except that Sunshine will still have Bronze Working while we will not.

However, since our 2-move Jaguars are faster explorers than their 1-move warriors, we have a higher chance of whoring all of the techs between Sunshine and MAST than they do... so I have no fear about whether we can find Bronze Working from another trading partner, along with other things.

I will start a poll about this and about a 30-turn NAP with Sunshine.

	12-08-2003 10:31									#9
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As for other elements of the chat, it should be noted that Sunshine is playing Greece, so they started the game with the Hoplite 3-defense spearman UU. Given the sheer improbability of taking on their 3-defense Hoplites with our 1-attack Jaguar Warriors, I recommend a target other than Sunshine for a Jaguar rush or even an archer rush.

As such, a 30-turn NAP with them (and likely renewed beyond) is a good idea. We can crush them after their UU has lost its effectiveness

That said, if our GA gets prematurely started because oru UU is used, it might be worth it given the theme of our team to attack one of their Hoplites mearly to start their GA and ruin whatever GA plans they had...

But, for now, NAP and this tech trade both make a great deal of sense. We can whore their techs with our faster exploration units and we'd rather not attack their Hoplites yet anyhow.

	12-08-2003 15:37									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 From the Historian's Postal Service: Nuclear Master has PM'd me to to ask if I could speak for MAST, which I cannot obviously. Therefore I am just relaying the message that he is waiting for a response and would like one soon.

Can you tell him I'm still waiting for a response as to how much they value their worthless lives.

	12-08-2003 16:37									#11
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Hehe, if we want them to be allies perhaps we should tone down the crap-talk in our PM's? Alternatively we could offer lower levels of trash-talk as part of the deal?

	12-08-2003 16:44									#12
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On making deals:

/Trash-talk off/
Anyone should be able to make deals but the deals should be reviewed by the team(and voted over) before they are valid. Unless the deal-maker already have the authorization he needs to make the deal.
/Trash-talk on/

Do you think someone would join us in an alliance against ourself?

Could anyone send me the current save?

	12-08-2003 22:55									#13
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As I told him in the chat, any and all deals need authorization by OPD and/or the team.

I'll bring this up again? Do we need a constitution or at least like 3 basic rules or something?

"Constitutions":

OPTION A: Dictatorship

1. The elected leader makes all decisions on behalf of the team.
2. The elected leader may delegate the power to make decisions about certain issues to other members of the team as he deems necessary
3. The elected leader is elected each time the previous leader is deposed or quits.
4. A current leader may be deposed by a majority vote of the team at any time. The person who starts the vote becomes the new leader if it passes.

Simple enough.

OPTION B: Oligarchy

1. A majority vote of the membership of the team (through a poll) shall make all final decisions.
2. The team shall elect a leader who shall make all decisions except when overruled by a vote of the full team in a poll.
3. The leader has the right to break ties in any vote of the full team through a poll.
4. The leader may delegate all or part of his powers to other team members for authority to make decisions for the whole team. They may do so unless overruled by the leader or a vote of the fulll team through a poll.
5. The elected leader is elected each time the previous leader is deposed or quits.
6. A current leader may be deposed by a majority vote of the team at any time. The person who starts the vote becomes the new leader if it passes.

Can be a little more complicated, but it still works. We might have to specify which things the leader can simply decide and which the full team has to vote on (treaties, for instance), but otherwise KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Option C would be a full-blown constitution with lots of rules, which I think we almost certainly do not want to go to the trouble of creating.

Thoughts?

	13-08-2003 13:11									#14
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Option B sounds fine. Needs some fine-tuning but I like the general idea.

	13-08-2003 22:51									#15
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Option B also. A majority vote is a lot more preferable to one person making all the decisions.

	14-08-2003 05:33									#16
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Option B - for obvious reasons, the more people making the decisions the better the decisions will be.

However I'd still like to act like a cruel dictator all the time

	14-08-2003 05:36									#17
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quote: Originally posted by bongo On making deals: /Trash-talk off/ Anyone should be able to make deals but the deals should be reviewed by the team(and voted over) before they are valid. Unless the deal-maker already have the authorization he needs to make the deal. /Trash-talk on/

This is great too.

Also I was thinking of having something in the constitution about each team member being allowed to get us into or start 1 war but only 1. Team members getting us into two or more wars would have to restrain themselves in the public forum.

What do you think?

	14-08-2003 05:37									#18
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quote: Originally posted by OPD This is great too. Also I was thinking of having something in the constitution about each team member being allowed to get us into or start 1 war but only 1. Team members getting us into two or more wars would have to restrain themselves in the public forum. What do you think?

Rofl, sounds fun.

	14-08-2003 05:43									#19
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Nuc winter sent me this earlier on

MAST
O wise most intelligent and handsome OPD would you mind if I had a chat with you being I am your humble and sunny ambassador?

Despite the ridiculously incorrect title I tried to send him a response but his PM box was full. I should be able to catch up with him in IRC sometime though.

Does anyone want to be MAST ambassador to Sunshine?


Also what do people think about having a serious long term alliance with Sunshine, I think they might go for it and doubt we'll be able to make friends with other civs that easily especially if they've already met other nations.

We could agree a deal and then break it when it suits us or perhaps even agree to act completely honestly "no really" with sunshine while screwing everyone else over. I figure we need at least one ally as I doubt anyone is going to trust us at all.

	14-08-2003 07:28									#20
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Sounds good OPD. We really should get one serious ally that we don't double cross.

	14-08-2003 13:40									#21
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I second that. Going aaalll the way with backstabbing, double-crossing and generally being a pimple on the worlds ass will only lead to a premature end.

It would be fun though


I guess there will be no more 'funny' save-game naming but thats just another bonus to the hippies.

	14-08-2003 14:19									#22
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As I currently am Minister of Peace, Love and Understanding, would that make me the ideal ambassador to the hippies?

What does an ambassador do BTW?

	14-08-2003 14:50									#23
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quote: Originally posted by bongo As I currently am Minister of Peace, Love and Understanding, would that make me the ideal ambassador to the hippies? What does an ambassador do BTW?

Mostly you have to steal their cattle, raze their towns and murder their people. It is also permissible to go out for a drink with their leader.

	14-08-2003 17:01									#24
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quote: Originally posted by bongo As I currently am Minister of Peace, Love and Understanding, would that make me the ideal ambassador to the hippies? What does an ambassador do BTW?

Cool do you have IRC?

Like Vulture says you have to steal stuff off them and harras them... then maybe a bit of communicating between the teams and improving relations etc...

	14-08-2003 18:18									#25
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I'll send a PM to their leader, who is it BTW?

	14-08-2003 18:49									#26
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I sent this PM to ruby_maser

The Most Intelligent and Handsome Bongo, Minister of Peace, Love and Understandig of the Mohammed al-Sahaf Team Greets You, Ruby_Maser, most wise and sun-tanned leader of the Sunshinian People. May Your days be many and joyful and May your people never run out of sunscreen.

I come before you today to serve as an ambassadour to the great sunshinian court. I hope you will accept me and provide me with a place to rest my limbs and advice on where to buy the best sunscreen.

I also hope that our two nation can cooperate in many ways so our two nations may prosper.

As a little token of my Good Will I hereby declare that I never again will name a save 'stick it where the sun doesn't shine.sav', or anything remotely offensive.


Yours
Bongo, Minister of Peace, Love and Understanding, Mohammed al-Sahaf Team.

Edit: Pink was F***ing unreadable so I used red

	15-08-2003 04:26									#27
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Sounds good.

I'm on the same team with I think 90% of Team Sunshine in the PTWDG-1 (RP Team), so I can certainly help with diplomacy with those guys since I see then in chat all of the time.

Other than that, go for it