11-08-2003 03:16									#1
	Question about armor and hit points Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Does anybody know how armor points work?

Are they figured into the hit points so that all you really need to know is the hit point total or do they make it more difficult to hit so that hit points and armor are somewhat cumulative? The reason I'm interested is that I'm looking to find the best small flank attack force to disrupt attacks with but I want the units to withdraw quickly, draw off some of the AI's attackers, and survive. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

	11-08-2003 04:26									#2
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IF you want to attack with a small flanking force pick units like calvary archers, tanks, armor cars, and other fast attack units. It works well but you must exspect some loses. The best thing to do to draw away armies is to either build decoy buildings or do decoy attacks on cities away from where you want to attack. If you want to flank armored units used bazooka inf they do a lot of damage. As for the armor points they are for artillery attacks, armors,and other special weapons, I have witnessed the effects myself on units.

IF you really want a really good flank attack but without having to run away use 4 general in the flank force, make 2 create decoys, and make the other two force march. It is really good, Remember general are a necissary item in battle, especial for flank attacks.

	11-08-2003 12:56									#3
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the armor, atttack and hp values really don't matter. If you attack a cavalry with pikemen the pikemen will win. If you attack a pikeman with archers the archer will win. With RoN I don't even read the numbers, just read the description of the troops.

	12-08-2003 05:29									#4
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quote: Originally posted by WRangler Rhymer IF you really want a really good flank attack but without having to run away use 4 general in the flank force, make 2 create decoys, and make the other two force march. It is really good, Remember general are a necissary item in battle, especial for flank attacks.

That sounds like an excellent idea. I also think that the ambush function would help. But I still want to learn about armor because I do not want to rebuild my flanking/rear attack force as I've too many other good uses for the resourses.

Hey Heymlich; Of course we've got the rock, paper, and sissors thing going on but I'm looking for the best counter to the siege and don't trust my spies to get the job done every time. But "best" has to take into account the costs of researching all the unit advances and I don't think it's efficient to research them all. So if I'm going to use one or two unit types to take out scouts protecting siege weapons then which ones have the best chance of getting the job done and getting out alive? After that my spies will take out his guns and I just love watching the AI wreck itself on my forts and towers after its guns are gone

	12-08-2003 06:33									#5
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Drachen: I find knights or light cav (and later armored cars, tanks, and especially hellicopters) do the job the best. Make sure to wheel your cavalry around the defending pikemen or anti-tank troops.

	12-08-2003 12:32									#6
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Hey Matt; I agree with you about knights, tanks, and helos being very effective choices but here's a couple of counterpoints. The heavy infantry line seems to be the most resilient and if you combine that with a forced march in and out, ambush, and decoys... they just might survive. I'm gonna try that soon. I was also thinking that using more spies might overwhelm the scout and its gun...but that could get expensive. Anyway, here is the plan I'm going to try next time I find enemy scouts protecting siege guns. I'll use light infantry to take out the scout protecting the gun since they are relatively low cost thanks to Terra Cotta. If I don't lose too many of them then the problem's solved and armor's function becomes irrelevant to this question. But other questions may arise and I still want to know how armor works!

Last edited by Drachen on 13-08-2003 at 06:11

	12-08-2003 13:37									#7
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In the modern and Information ages General get special tactic that shots blasts at any army and takes away their armor.

	27-08-2003 13:27									#8
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@Drachen:

I only research two unit types: Heavy Cavalry and Light Infantry. Usually I upgrade them only once (in gunpowder age). Later I build SoL and get all other upgrades. This saves alot of ressources and especially it saves alot of oil at the beginning of industrial age.

If I want to attack early I have to develop siege units, too. On sea maps it is necessary to have some ships. But mainly I use Light inf. to do the main work and heavy cav. to protect them from cavalry attacks.

	27-08-2003 14:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by HeymlicH @Drachen: If I want to attack early I have to develop siege units, too. On sea maps it is necessary to have some ships. But mainly I use Light inf. to do the main work and heavy cav. to protect them from cavalry attacks.

So, if you're not rushing your opponent, then what do you consider an early attack? If you start one of these early attacks, then what is the earliest age in which you get the victory screen against the toughest AI?

	27-08-2003 16:53									#10
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I admit, against the toughest AI it is more complicated. Since I play huge maps and 8 players most of the time I am always in Information Age when the last AI is down. In some cases no AI is able to reach Information Age, in Some cases 2 or 3 of them do. Usually I start raiding in Enlightment Age or in Industrial. It is my preferred play style to build up a strong economy first, but I don't like to wait to the end age before I'm attacking because I want to disrupt the enemy's tech progress.

The only exception: With Turks I attack in classic age (but on huge maps it still takes until modern or information age to conquer the world)

	27-08-2003 21:04									#11
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Attacking with Turks in Classic? Interesting...

Do you do it as a rush or boom a bit first? How soon do you think you'd get the win 1V1, toughest, on small map?

	28-08-2003 12:37									#12
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Since I'm playing huge maps I always build the colossus. On small maps, 1v1, I would skip this. I can't say how long it would take ... never tried this.

But turks seem to be perfect for this ... economic advantages in the beginning + the free catapults + faster assimilation ...

	28-08-2003 14:35									#13
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Well let me know what happens if you ever do try a 1v1 toughest on a small map. Currently I win standard setting toughest, 1v1, on small maps in three ways.

1. Ancient Rush in less than 4 minutes in variations worked out following the lead of Out4Blood.

2. Egyptian wonder wins in Medieval.

3. Military conquests in which I get the victory screen in Gunpowder.

So, one of my interests remains looking for non rush strategies to achieve conquests in classic or medieval.



"Is there anybody out there?"

Last edited by Drachen on 28-08-2003 at 20:14

	28-08-2003 16:36									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't like standard settings

I use the following settings:

Victory: Conquest
Elimination: Conquest or Capital
Tech: normal

I always start as nomad

So, if I played small maps 1v1 I would'nt even build a city and instead try to find the enemy and kill the peasants before his first city is completed (the AI continues construction of the city even when attacked). This should be faster than 4 minutes (actually, it takes about 2 min to found the first city, so you have to win within these 2 minutes)

Maybe you should play larger maps vs 7 AI's. On toughest it is impossible (at least for me) to win this without a strong economy. I always build up the economy first, but let the AI have the tech lead until modern age (upgrade is cheaper if you're second )

The reason why I attack so early with turks is: It doesn't hurt me much, but I get more money from taxation because of the extra territory.

	28-08-2003 19:41									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Larger maps w/more opponents is something I'll get to although I have played several "Survival of the Fittest" and team games using 3 AI. However, I feel it's more challenging to have the AI concentrating on me in 1v1 or 2v1 and I've been experimenting with strats to get a non rush conquest more quickly; my Gunpowder win is the fastest I’m aware of. The idea of a nomad rush is intriguing and if you could post a game I'd be interested.

	29-08-2003 15:59									#16
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sorry, I can't post games since I don't have internet at home. The method is easy. run around and try to place a city (don't place a city). If you are near the enemy you can't found a city. Find a spot that is a city border for the enemy city. If you know the city radius and two of these spots you can calculate the location of the enemy city. (take into account that chinese cities might have a larger city radius - I'm not sure about this). I eliminated enemies that way, but it wasn't 1v1, so it didn't make much sense - was just for fun.

If you like to win in the midgame you could try british, too. They have good unique units, a strong economy and are not focused on rushing the opponent as much as the turks.

	29-08-2003 21:12									#17
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Thanks HeymlicH...I'll give it a try.

	01-09-2003 17:15									#18
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OK, I tried it myself and have to say:

You need luck to win a nomad rush. Took me 5 or 6 attempts before I was able to win. Ingame time to crush the AI: 1 min 15 sec

	02-09-2003 01:20									#19
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If you could do a film killing the toughest AI that would beat your 3:46 record :-)

	02-09-2003 17:22									#20
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Hey O4B...Good to hear from you and yes we have a winner! Game posted is won at 1:03 and HeymlicH...you just kicked the door down! You just smmmoooosssshed the previous record. Kudos and general congrats to you.

O4B...I'm at my non "beta version of RON" computer and I just loaded down your Domino 7. Very nice strat, Bam, Bam, Bambambam and you guys are going down fast!

Good work guys.

Attachment: bantunomadrush1-03.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

Last edited by Drachen on 02-09-2003 at 23:49