11-08-2003 21:33									#1
	More than 11 terrains? Support Apolyton

Is there a way how to get more than 11 terrains?
It looks terrain.gif files are not prepared for that...

	11-08-2003 21:36									#2
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Not really. You could simulate some aspects of extra terrains by toying with the special resource slots to give them radically different stats, but than you'd be limited by the resource seed.

	11-08-2003 21:47									#3
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Position of specials is known with tools like HutFinder...

	12-08-2003 02:20									#4
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Actually, you can have 4 times that many terrains is ToT, but each map is limited to its own set of 11 terains (i.e. 11 surface, 11 subterranean, 11 underwater & 11 aerial terrains).

	12-08-2003 02:25									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You can have up to 12 different looking hills, mountains, and forests. You can also have two radically different apperances for Grasslands.

But stop and think... Do you really need that many terrains?

	12-08-2003 03:01									#6
	Remove this text

Yes.

I noticed all scenarios are concentrated to simulation of history etc. But I would like to have (and so to create) a scenario that is interesting also from the strategic point of view. (BTW see Changes in rules.txt)
For example City Walls are too strong - I would like a semi-Walls. I would like that Mining improves defense then Transforming improves it even better.
So for many terrains I need 'clones': for example Grassland, FortifiedGrassland, HeavilyFortifiedGrassland.

One day I will post a new thread about that - I want to concetrate myself to work on rules.txt and to let graphics, events for somebody other.

	12-08-2003 03:05									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Tanelorn, I thought ToT is more similar to MGE...

	12-08-2003 04:36									#8
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You can't get more terrains, so you'll have to be inventive.

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Tanelorn, I thought ToT is more similar to MGE...

And what exactly do you mean by that? One of the main differences is that ToT games can have up to four different maps. Each map will have its own set of terrains. So unless you want to travel back and forth all the time, that isn't gonna help much either.

If it's gonna be a scenario, your best bet is to reduce the amount of types used... E.g. on a US only map, use Jungle, Glacier and Tundra for the extra "fortifications". If the map will be limited to a battlefield scale you'll have even more options. In that case, you might even use units to represent forest/mountains instead to free the terrains for other purposes.

And do you really need 3 types per terrain? What are you gonna use the fortress improvement for then?

	12-08-2003 05:09									#9
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More than a scenario I want a good and interesting rules.txt.

quote: What are you gonna use the fortress improvement for then?

I want a fortification for a city square. For example the Grassland (or a square good for a city) could have a 1/2 defense only, FortifiedGrassland 3/2 (like standard Forest).

I need more than 3 types of terrain. I would like to toy also with MoveCost of terrains. You know that coastal cities are very vulnerable for a for-leg attack from the sea. So I often forest squares around a city in standard games. I want to say I would like also FencedGrassland with movecost 2 (and BarricadedGrassland with movecost 3).

	12-08-2003 07:51									#10
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Are you thinking of a random-generated or fixed map?

	12-08-2003 08:22									#11
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It's practically impossible to have modded terrains with a random map.

Also before you mod, do you plan on using pollution and global warming?

	12-08-2003 17:41									#12
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You know, scenarios have one disavantage: you know the map after first game. I like fun from exploration, so my plan is a random generator... but I know that another generator that the built-in Civ2 one will be needed.

I don't want pollution, both game play and creation are enough complicated without it.

	12-08-2003 17:43									#13
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Because I started to talk about it I will explain more things:

In Civ2 I miss that different areas have not different strategic values. A situation with equal strategic values is too simple: the defender defends them uniformly, the attacker chooses one and attacks. With areas of different values attacker must speculate if it is worth to lose 15 units and take a great point or to take some unimportant with low losses. And defender must speculate how to spread his forces and how to prevent attacker's plans.
OK, there are choke points on maps sometimes, cities with WoWs have bigger value (but players build them in central position of your civ), bigger cities have bigger value (but this happens only later in the game), but this is not enough.
So some 'super terrain' would be good. Only problem is that a player that would find such a terrain faster would have a big advantage. So the idea is that the terrain gets to be 'super' only after some long Irrigation or Mining (or Transforming later in the game)- for example it will produce 20 shields but only after 40 turns of Setlers' work. Terrain improvement must be worth of it, so that the important strategic point originates, but it must not be extremely advantageous so that a player don't win the game by it.

Another point is that 'super terrain' would help that civs are not centered around the capital but divided.

	12-08-2003 19:00									#14
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You could superize the special resources.

	12-08-2003 20:26									#15
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Remember the possibility of random scenario files used in Microprose's Jules Verne scenario that comes with FW; there is a design tip about that at the SLeague Home Page.

	13-08-2003 04:20									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

,
Do you mean that a special could be Irrigated/Mined towards super special? Good idea, but I don't like use of special - I prefer to make HutFinder useless for better fun from exploring the map... But with only few super squares it might be bearable...

BTW is it possible to append a mining/irrigating/transform part to specials (different from the base terrain)?

	13-08-2003 05:21									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That looks like unproven ground. Time to prove it!

OK, found out that any text appeneded to the specials is useless. Doesn't crash the game, but doesn't change the bonuses for irrigating/mining/transform either.

What you could do is have one type of terrain super rare but have it super potent when improved while having the improvement process take a super long time.

Side note:
Irri/Farm can only boost Food, Mining can only boost Shield, only Desert/Plain/Grass gets +1 trade from roadz.