12-08-2003 16:34									#31
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Thats because you are an evil communist and cant crasp the concept of true capitalism

	12-08-2003 16:36									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel why would ANYONE drive an SUV is beyond me.

That would make sense if we all lived in a country the size of a postage stamp like you do.

Distances in Australia are measured in hours or days travelled and hundreds or thousands of kilometres. I could easily drive 1000 kilometres on an average weekend away, of that say 200 kilometres or more off road.

You have no real idea what a big empty country this is.

	12-08-2003 16:40									#33
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If you drive off road then get a proper off roader. If you need to carry lots of people get a people carrier. Fair enough.

If you live in a city and as your day to day car one of those crappy 'sporty' 4wd things that would die off road and are totally uneconomical around town then you should probably be shot.

	12-08-2003 16:40									#34
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why would you do that?

	12-08-2003 16:42									#35
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No idea.

	12-08-2003 16:45									#36
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that was a nice X-post.

	12-08-2003 18:20									#37
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We have two smaller sized SUVs. Honda passport, jeep sport. 15 mpg in the city and 20 on the highway. We bought a house close to our jobs so are commuting distance is neglible. In Chicago it's nice to have vehicles that can handle the winters. One winter my wife's civic was totalled because she couldn't get out of the way of an idiot. She was hospitalized. She replaced it with the jeep sport. She will never switch back.
I like the ability to haul around construction materials. When we vacation in northern wisconsin, and SUV is the only way to go.
So I don't care what anybody else thinks, the safety of my family is more important to me. And the other capabilites fit our life style. DEAL WITH IT.

I've been in many accidents in winter. Only one was my fault. All of them were in non-SUVs.

	12-08-2003 18:24									#38
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I dont have one, but if I lived where it snowed I'd buy 2.

	12-08-2003 18:39									#39
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quote: 10 years from now if I'm working in the architectural field or thereabouts I'll be making pretty decent money, so I'm not too worried about cost.

What? The architectural field does not pay decent money!

Other things may use petroleum, but transportation is the single biggest user of petroleum.

Disregard the energy issue for a moment though. Let's say that new technologies allow for fusion-powered cars that run on water with no emissions. Would SUVs still be as evil as they are?

	12-08-2003 19:03									#40
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Gas Hogs, Big, garish, and ugly, Can't see around 'em in traffic, handle like a constipated mule, Roll over in a stiff breeze, terrible braking, People that drive em have compensation issues...

SUV's suck. If you're in snow, front-wheel is just as good in a tight spot, and better in braking situations.

	12-08-2003 19:16									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley What? The architectural field does not pay decent money!

Not for entry level jobs, or working for the big firms. Otherwise, If you're registered, have contacts and a constant job trickle you can do pretty well.

BTW, my next car should be an SUV.
Though the one I have now is too comfy to let go.

	12-08-2003 19:17									#42
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I drive a Dodge Ram 4x4 for work. I'm a Geologist and I actually need a 4x4 unlike you possers.

	12-08-2003 19:29									#43
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The higher ground clearance it what make them better than front wheel drive cars in the snow. Both of mine are no bigger than mini-vans.

	12-08-2003 19:34									#44
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I have a metrocard.

No SUV has as much room, is as safe, or uses less gasoline than the subway.

	12-08-2003 19:34									#45
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OK, now why do you need not one but 2 SUVs?

	12-08-2003 19:36									#46
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15 Mpg?!? Urgh.

All the really snowy bits of europe people just seem to have normal cars and stick snow chains on them in the winter.

	12-08-2003 19:47									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley OK, now why do you need not one but 2 SUVs?

One for me and one for my wife. Our schedules do not allow for us to drive to work together. And since it's less than 7 miles, gas isn't really an issue. It would be difficult for me to tell my wife that one of us deserves the safety and not the other.
I don't know what everyone's problem with it is. It's not like they're hummers or other huge SUVs. And they're a heck of a lot safer than minivans or the old family stationwagons.

	12-08-2003 19:51									#48
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Yeah but 15/20 Mpg is absolutely appalling.

	12-08-2003 19:56									#49
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Sorry, but 4wD is better than Front WD in bad conditions.

	12-08-2003 20:05									#50
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Yep, i've had rear wd, front wd and 4wd and 4wd is much much better on snow and other bad conditions. And to the lower mpg. My neighbor drives into the city in his higher mpg car. We bought a smaller more expensive house nearer to work. He uses more gas than I do. Just who is conserving better? You must look at the situation and not just spew generalizations.

	12-08-2003 20:21									#51
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Disclaimer: the following comment is about people in the UK who drive SUV's and don't need to because they never go off road and we don't get much snow.

Until a couple of years ago I had to drive quite a lot for work and whenever it snowed or got a bit icy on the roads the incompetent morons in their Suzuki and Daihatsu 4x4's always ended up going slower than people in ordinary cars and building up traffic queues. Why?

There are a number of smaller people carrier vehicles sold in the UK, like the Citroen Berlingo, that actually have more internal space than a SUV, cost half the price, use half the petrol and aren't any uglier. In Europe they sell and in the UK we still buy 4x4's despite our high petrol costs. Are UK motorists really that stupid?

Scrub that last question, they have to be!

	12-08-2003 20:28									#52
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quote: Originally posted by rah You must look at the situation and not just spew generalizations.

Sorry, I thought this was Apolyton.

	12-08-2003 20:33									#53
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I have a 4x4, truck

I have always driven a 4x4, and prior to the truck I had a Suburban.

I like the hauling capacity. This comes in very handy when I was in college. I like the 4x4 aspect too, as going up to Tahoe in the winter can be scary and my wife doesn't like to hike, so I can camp off of jeep trails.

I generally only use it for mountain trips (of which there are many) and to get to and from work (10 miles). My wife has a little 6 cylinder which we take everywhere else.

	12-08-2003 20:42									#54
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quote: Originally posted by rah I don't know what everyone's problem with it is. It's not like they're hummers or other huge SUVs. And they're a heck of a lot safer than minivans or the old family stationwagons.

They're gas guzzlers and they endanger everyone else on the road. I.e. they are completely anti-social. While I understand your safety concerns, I have to interject that there are other people on the road - like myself sometimes. And on the rare occassions when I do rent a car to drive out of the city I don't want to have to rent a @#$%ing SUV (and pay for the increased gas usage) just to make my saftey equal out with yours. People like you encourge the race to the bottom.

BTW, mini-vans are safer than SUVs because they don't roll over anywhere near as easily. Minivans have a proper center of gravity AND are more durable than SUVs. If safety is really your primary concern, why don't you own two minivans instead?

	12-08-2003 20:59									#55
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Minivans on snow have no clearence and if you touch your brakes, you're toast.
If you don't drive like an idiot, SUVs aren't the tip-over danger that they're made out to be. The two models that we have rated very low on the list.

As to saftey of everyone one the road, I'll give up my suv when all other suvs, minivans, regular vans, pickup trucks, RVs, semi's, and cars hauling trailers are removed also. Why are you picking on SUV and not all the other culprits?

If you choose to not protect yourself as much as I try to protect my wife and daughter, THAT"S YOUR DECISION. and not my concern. I would prefer not to have to rush to the hospital to see if my wife survived again.

	12-08-2003 21:01									#56
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yeah SUV's are safe... but not for the people in the other car who you kill...

	12-08-2003 21:02									#57
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From Templar:

quote: I don't want to

So, since you don't want to others can't? Communist sociopath.

I am not going to argue the "gas" thing, as I know they do, but it is our choice and not yours what we choose to buy... Welcome to the free market economy.

Yet, I do agree that SUVs can be dangerous to others on the road. I think that all SUVs should require a truck class liscence, and those vehicles which seat more than 5 people (any vehicle) should require a different class of liscence, maybe whatever a limo driver has to get.

Why? Stupid soccer mom, people not paying attention, the size, stopping distance, and length of the vehicle which is ussually has tinted windos which reduces visability, cell phones, and screaming kids make for an unpleasant and unattentive driver... who, by-the-way is driving a Sherman Tank...

	12-08-2003 21:05									#58
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What about semi's, regular vans, trucks, etc? THey're no different. As long as they're on the road, I want a little protection.

And last time I checked, I haven't killed anybody on the road, so that arguement has no validity with me.

If you choose to drive a regular car that you're saying is more dangerous, that's your choice.

	12-08-2003 21:10									#59
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quote: Originally posted by rah Minivans on snow have no clearence and if you touch your brakes, you're toast. If you don't drive like an idiot, SUVs aren't the tip-over danger that they're made out to be. The two models that we have rated very low on the list.

I've got a friend (since high school) who now works in auto insurance up here in New York. He gave up his Jeep Cherokee when he and his wife had their kid for a minivan. According to him, minivans are far safer even in snow than SUVs. (Of course, this is mostly from a statitical perspective ...)

quote: As to saftey of everyone one the road, I'll give up my suv when all other suvs, minivans, regular vans, pickup trucks, RVs, semi's, and cars hauling trailers are removed also. Why are you picking on SUV and not all the other culprits?

I'd just as soon ban all non-commmercial non-cars from public roads. In fact, I'd just as soon tear down public roads and let everyone use mass transit. Even Amtrak is safer than driving.

quote: If you choose to not protect yourself as much as I try to protect my wife and daughter, THAT"S YOUR DECISION. and not my concern. I would prefer not to have to rush to the hospital to see if my wife survived again.

I can sympathize. But, this does not diminish your anti-social behavior - your "as long as me and mine are safe, screw everyone else" mentality.

	12-08-2003 21:16									#60
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quote: I don't care what anybody else thinks, the safety of my family is more important to me.

Unfortunately, that increased safety comes at the cost of decreased safety for everyone else's families, especially those who end up under an SUV's frame or axel in what should be a bumper-to-bumper collision.

Do you also have those extra-bright lights mounted at car-driver's eyeball level? Those can increase the SUV driver's safety, too. Who cares about anyone else or their families. They can "DEAL WITH IT".