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zeit is offline zeit
King
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 12-08-2003 20:48
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Important! Lego and our research Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll echo what I've posted on the RP90ad thread:
quote:
DeepO, you should contact Lego and ask them if they're willing to postpone our deal until further notice, if not then maybe to replace Banking for Invention, things are not advancing in this field in terms of intra-team discussion, and we're getting close to a point where we'll be breaking an agreement if we're not going to start research soon.


This issue is important, I think we're willing to abide our agreement with them despite the inconvenience, but we should try and ask them to cut us some slack- perhaps they'll understand and be willing to let us off the hook in one way or another, but we better address this quickly.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 12-08-2003 20:52
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Got spare money?

I fully agree... however, very little discussion has been spend on this subject. As long as we don't spend gold, we can be in time, even if we start in 3 turns on banking.

I'm certainly not against going for invention instead, but I don't think Lego will like it if we would just forgo all research (and they would be right).

So, question: what is the cost of banking, as opposed to invention? Are they equal in cost? I don't have access to the editor, and haven't opened civ in months due to time constraints... I have no idea about how much invention costs.

DeepO

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 12-08-2003 21:04
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Let's ask Lego to slow it down some. We're going to need some gold... this war will not be cheap.

-Arrian

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 12-08-2003 21:16
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Arrian, we already asked Lego to slow it down... a further delay won't be good for diplomatic relations... last chat, we asked it they would be willing to slow it down together with us, but we haven't received any answer on that. I think a switch would be easier for us to negotiate.

DeepO

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:30
  Old Post 12-08-2003 22:47
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Invention: 44.
Banking: 52.
What do we do about the difference? Say that we owe them and we'll sort things out in the next tech agreement? (which hopefully won't be delayed by any wars)

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 00:15
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Damn, this isn't good.

We have to honor the agreement if they force it, but perhaps we could ask (nicely, perhaps even grovel a bit?) them about a switch to Invention and promise future compensation (based upon research value... so "8" with some interest - so maybe more like "12") if/when we prevail in the current conflict.

They will probably be happy to hear we're having trouble on Bob. Whether or not they will be in any way sympathetic is another thing. If we really sound worried, maybe they will worry that we'll collapse, which wouldn't be good for them (they probably want a long, bloody slugfest) and they will be cooperative.

Maybe. Gee, aren't I a big help?

-Arrian

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 01:37
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Increase Your PM Length

8 difference... with how we handled research cost so far, that would amount to about 100 gold compensation (24*8 beakers, 1 gold/2 beakers compensation). We might get away with this...

Does everyone agree to ask Lego? if so, I'll write a mesasge in the morning, and leave it on the board. Now, I'm not fully ready to write it (hot wheather makes you thirsty), and after tomorrow afternoon I won't be around to send it for a couple of days. Arrian, you're still vice ambassador, right? We might need your services soon

DeepO

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 01:47
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I can fill, composing PMs and such, if need be.

I'd start out by explaining that we're in a serious war, and are in dire need of cash, and therefore we were hoping to discuss a possible equitable renegotiation of our tech deal - one that both Lego & GS could live with.

I would stress that GS will honor the deal as originally proposed if Lego demands it, but would greatly appreciate flexibility on their part.

Then we start in on the Invention idea, with ~100 gold in compensation (though since we need the cash, it would have to be delayed, and as such, we should probably offer a higher amount in recognition of the delay).

Damn... the more I think about it, the more we should have stayed away from locking ourselves into "builder" research when we knew a slugfest on Bob was a strong possibility. I was supportive of that, and now I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

-Arrian

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 02:07
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Got spare money?

Please don't mention the word 'honor'. Use an alternative wording for 'GS will honor the deal' and such.
That word has caught on too much dirt lately.

zeit is offline zeit
King
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 04:11
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Maybe 'abide' instead of 'honor'? (not that I'm an expert in the nuances of the english language, but still... ).

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 05:53
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Sounds good to me.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 16:33
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I don't agree on the delay of the cash, but other then that, it is all good for me... sadly, it seems I won't be able to start on the PM, so Arrian, please go ahead! I've got too much to do at work today

One point: they were interested in invention, they asked if they were able to get it somewhere else. Better ask them if anyone would be going for it that they know of, and if not, if they would want to get it from us. It's very likely they even would prefer invention over banking, so in case we could present it as a win-win situation for both, they won't be offended at all.

As to the build-tech things: it's not that we really need the cash, we ould manage without it. But we needed to convince Lego that we were not going to war, and take over Bob immediately, and this was one of the only ways to do it. I still don't think we did wrongly there, there might have been a better way, but this was no mistake of us. Besides, I still think that domination is about the only way to win this game, for which we don't need techs at all... but we need to have friends before we can attempt it.

DeepO

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 18:21
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Proposed PM:

quote:

To (whomever):

As the people of Legoland are no doubt aware, the people of the Gathering Storm are presently engaged in the War-to-not-quite-end-all-wars. It is a difficult time for our nation. Aside from the normal stresses of combat, there is the issue of cash flow.

We have previously agreed to research banking in exchange for your research of Astronomy. At the outset, I'd like to be clear that, if Legoland insists upon it, we will certainly abide by the terms of our original deal. However, if your people are willing to restructure the deal in mutually agreeable fashion that would allow the Gathering Storm more free cash for the prosecution of the war, we would be most appreciative. I and my teamates are open to creative solutions, so please don't hesitate to throw some into the mix.

Here is the one thought we've come up with thus far: as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), Legoland is also interested in the technology of Invention. Invention is less expensive than Banking. What it the Gathering Storm researched Invention instead, and either 1) provided cash reimbursement to Legoland for the difference in technology cost at a later date; or 2) received cash from Legoland for Invention, and not Astronomy. Clearly, I cannot anticipate your exact wants/needs, so my ideas may not be of much use to you. This is why I encourage you to propose other solutions that perhaps fit Legoland's plans better.

The long and the short of it is that we need cash right now, and researching banking (though it could be done) would be quite a strain, and hamper our war efforts. I am by no means naive enough to believe you have any particular interest in assisting our war efforts. However, I do believe it is in your interests to keep us fighting. I can't imagine Legoland wants a decisive victory for ND + GoW, anymore than it wants a decisive victory for GS + RP. So obviously it is up to you to guage whether or not restructuring our tech deal is in your best interests. I leave it to you. As I said, if Legoland insists, we will abide by the original deal.

Respectfully,

-Arrian

Co-general of the armies of the Gathering Storm
Assistant Ambassador to the people of Legoland

zeit is offline zeit
King
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 18:39
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Looks fine- a bit direct on the last paragraph, but I'm sure they'll appreciate it now that all hell broke loose...

Oh, and on Paragraph 2, 3rd sentence: you've put a "it" instead of "if"

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 18:44
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Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 18:49
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quote:
Originally posted by zeit
Looks fine- a bit direct on the last paragraph, but I'm sure they'll appreciate it now that all hell broke loose...

Oh, and on Paragraph 2, 3rd sentence: you've put a "it" instead of "if"


Did you already fix it? Or am I really that tired that I can't see it? *rubs eyes* I hate mornings.

I agree I was direct. I usually am.

-Arrian

zeit is offline zeit
King
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-08-2003 21:08
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I think I'm the one who should be rubbing his eyes- or maybe I'm hallucinating... I guess that "it" really is an"if". Sorry

So all is well- just let it sit and warm up on the board, and if no one objects- send it away.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 06:02
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Remove this text

Send it... well written.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 06:33
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yep, I like it too.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 07:37
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Very good.

Only one thing... 'finishing research of banking' would give less intel away. I'm not sure we want to tell them we can make it on time from 0. The change would avoid them reaching a correct conclution.

vulture is offline vulture
King
Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 14:19
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Got spare money?

I don't think that telling them we are researching from scratch gives too much away, since we are talking about switching to another tech (invention). They'll know we are researching that from scratch in the designated time, and given the small cost difference, it would be easier (cost wise) to stick with Banking for us if we had even one turn's research in it.

I've no problem with the message.

(And I had a good time in Greece too - but didn't get any photos for Theseus - probably would have sent them to the legendary Amy by mistake anyway...)

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 16:56
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Suffering from ads?

Bastard.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 17:44
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Ok, I'll send it soon.

-Arrian

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 14-08-2003 19:30
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Looking good

DeepO

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