12-08-2003 21:17									#1
	What if the world was one big democratic communistic confederacy? Utopia or disaster Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I don't know whether I'm a communist or not, but here's some food for though. Communism isn't as necessary for the US as it is for other countries mainly because the US is so rich that even the poorest people have what they need to live, unlike other countries where people are starving to death. But when you look at things on a broader spectrum, such as the entire world, the distribution of wealth is disgusting. There are many people in the world who have so much money that they don't know what to do with it, and millions eat so much that they grow fat, yet billions are malnourished. And I'm pretty sure that 45% of p the population of the world lives in substandard housing.

So, what if the world was one big communist country? Of course it would have to be very democratic and it would definitely have to be a confederacy. In a world as diverse as ours, governments that are more local need the power. All of the world could be divided into states with a government. The states would be what could be defined as a country. If one area had a specific culture it could be designated as a state. If an area had a nationaly identity that could be a state.

Let's apply this to countries today and see which ones would be states. Quebec would be its own state. The rest of Canada could be its own state, it is different then the US. The US should be its own state, we all have a huge nationaly identity and wouldn't want it any other way. Except Peurto Rico should be its own state. Every Latin American country is so different that each deserves to be its own state I think. Sorry if there is something there that I am looking over, I have never been outside of the US except for Mexico twice (once because I was born there and lived there for two and a half years) and Canada. Ireland would be its own state, none of this Northern Ireland crap. And for Belgium, it wouldn't be a state. Sorry Belgians, I have nothing against Belgium, in fact their nationaly team is my favorite soccer team. But the Walloon part of Belgium should be part of France and the Flemish part should be part of the Netherlands. Belgium IMO is made up of the cultures of its bordering states. I am not trying to be offensive, if you disagree with me speak up, but don't write me a nasty letter or anything.

As for Asia, Russia should definitely be split up into many states. Western Russia, the European part of Russia should be its own state. The other ethnicities in Russia should each have their own state. This would break up Russia into many states. As for the Middle East, I think all the Sunni parts of the country could be put into one state and and the shiite parts could be made into another. It doesn't have to be this way, but I don't think having a bunch of little states that are very similar is necessary. As for Israel, IMO the only way for peace there is for Palestine and Israel to be combined into one democratic state where there is equal representation for Jews and Muslims. Both could share the land they want. If this isn't done they will always be fighting each other for the land they want. I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying this either.

Africa should be broken up according to ethnicity also. The different tribes fight each other and commit genocide, so I think it would be best if they were in separate states.

This also brings up other points. If we were all one big communistic state, how rich would everyone be? If all the wealth was distributed evenly, what would be the income for each person? How much would each of us have? Also, would there be enough food to go around so that everyone would have enough to live on? Would there be enough clean water?

And, if we were all one big nation, would there be any war? I doubt it. The only reason one would fight another citizen of the same country would be for a civil war. And if we were all one democratic confederacy, I don't think it would be necessary. People would get the laws they choose and have all of the great freedoms. And since there would be a confederacy, there wouldn't be much of the central government bossing around the states. Even if there was a war, it would be brought to peace quickly. If we were one country we'd all want peace throughout the land. Just as when a war would happen in the US and when a war would happen in this big country, it would be brought to peace swiftly. If someone wanted to fight they'd be up against the rest of the world. I believe there would be world peace.

I hope I may have opened up intelligent discussion for once in my life. So, what do you guys think would happen if we were this one big democratic communist confederacy?

	12-08-2003 21:19									#2
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What if Barney the Purple Dinosaur started to smite all of those that made fun of him over the years?

	12-08-2003 21:22									#3
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Yeah, and what if Fozzy the bear, Kermit the frog, and Big Bird were the other 3 Apocolypse horsemen?

Man, it'd be a hot time in the old town.

	12-08-2003 21:23									#4
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I forgot some stuff. If we were one nation and communistic, think of how much better we would be for the environment. Since there are many countries in the world it is hard to be good for the environment without bossing around another country. It is also hard for us to be good to the environment because we live in a capitalism and businesses don't care about the environment. In a communism it is possible to do things that aren't good for the economy because the economy is state run. This would make protecting the environment so much easier.

	12-08-2003 21:24									#5
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quote: Africa should be broken up according to ethnicity also. The different tribes fight each other and commit genocide, so I think it would be best if they were in separate states.

one might note that the koreans, mongols, japanese, and chinese tend to be ethnically homogenous, but that hasn't stopped them from trying to kill each other off in the past...

	12-08-2003 21:25									#6
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quote: one big democratic communist confederacy

I'm honestly not sure that's possible. I am unconvinced that communism and democracy really are compatable. I know, I know, if you read Marx, it was supposed to be. But the more I think about it, the more I think that in a democratic political system, people who disagreed with communism would speak up, and there would be moderation of the system (much in the same way that capitalist societies have moderated since the worst excesses of the industrial revolution), such that it really wouldn't stay communist. Socialist, in the sense that Scandanavia is socialist, perhaps. But different regions would have different ideas on what level of socialism vs. capitalism they prefer... and it would be awfully tough to keep the whole thing together without the use of force. What, exactly, would this super commie state do with a bunch of Americans [or whoever] who kept voting for candidates who advocated a change in economic system? Allow change to the economic system, or crush them with Tanks?

There's the rub.

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 21:26									#7
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The reason is they are different. They have different cultures and I think they are technichally different ethnicities.

	12-08-2003 21:30									#8
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i know. your argument was that the hutus would be with the hutus, the tutsis with tutsis, to stop killing each other.

my point was that the japanese were with the japanese, the koreans with the koreans, and they still tried to kill each other.

	12-08-2003 21:32									#9
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How about this, people can change the system democratically on how socialist they want it but there is one thing they won't be able to change unless the whole world wills it-that everyone will get the same amount of wealth. Americans might be angered that they won't be so filthy rich anymore but the rest of the world will be so happy that they will get more food and have better lives.

	12-08-2003 21:33									#10
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Well how about this-whoever decides to kill people shall be severely punished. No death penalty, though.

	12-08-2003 21:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: Africa should be broken up according to ethnicity also. The different tribes fight each other and commit genocide, so I think it would be best if they were in separate states. one might note that the koreans, mongols, japanese, and chinese tend to be ethnically homogenous, but that hasn't stopped them from trying to kill each other off in the past...

Hey!!!!

What about us white europeans?!!!

	12-08-2003 21:37									#12
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quote: How about this, people can change the system democratically on how socialist they want it but there is one thing they won't be able to change unless the whole world wills it-that everyone will get the same amount of wealth.

They are free to vary the "amount of socialism" but everyone has to have the same amount of wealth? Do you not see a contradiction there?

The State: "citizen 19457234a, you may choose any automobile you wish. Your choices are a black honda accord, a black honda accord, and a black honda accord."

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 21:37									#13
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you guys have no culture.

	12-08-2003 21:40									#14
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[American sob story]I didn't get the car I wanted.[/American sob story]

[African sob story]My parents have been killed because of genocide, my brothers and sisters have been sold as slaves, and I am dying of starvation. Just like everyone else.[/African sob story]

	12-08-2003 21:41									#15
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quote: you guys have no culture.

At least we have pop culture!

	12-08-2003 21:42									#16
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It was an analogy. It wasn't about the car. It was about a promise that "you may have a range of choices" when in fact there were no choices. Same as "people can choose how much socialism they want" but "everyone has to have the same amount of wealth."

You clearly didn't get it.

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 21:44									#17
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There isn't a "one fits all" economic policy. To help decrease worldwide poverty, a diverse range of economic stategies must be studied and implemented strategically.

	12-08-2003 22:01									#18
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OK fine. You can democratically change how socialist the big nation is, but to destroy and equal distribution of wealth you must have the votes of the rest of the world.

quote: To help decrease worldwide poverty, a diverse range of economic stategies must be studied and implemented strategically.

Because of the system we have today, that won't happen. We will only do what's economically feasible for us. It is the capitalist way. Not unless we're one country and we're willing to work together.

	12-08-2003 22:11									#19
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quote: OK fine. You can democratically change how socialist the big nation is, but to destroy and equal distribution of wealth you must have the votes of the rest of the world.

So you're saying that the central government will have control of the economy, and in order to change economic/tax policy, you must convince the central government to do so.

Hence, not much regional autonomy (which, from the perspective of a world-wide communist state, is probably best in order to keep the state communist).

How much support would you need? A strict majority? Or more? If it's just 50.1% needed to change things, then I don't think communism would remain for long. But you could make it a 2/3 requirement.

Anyway, the basic point I was trying to make is that in order for communism and democracy to be compatible, the people living in the society (in this case, the Earth), must essentially agree that communism is the proper economic system. If they don't, the democratic process will result in a change of that system.

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 22:14									#20
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Yes, we all know how well communist domination has worked before.

	12-08-2003 22:21									#21
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it depends on the level of technology.

	12-08-2003 22:21									#22
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It is possible to convince the world that worldwide communism is the solution. Just use rhetoric. If we get some great leader who will do this, and he was a great speaker, it could happen. Plus, the people who don't want communism because they don' want to lose their wealth (such as Americans and other wealthy people) only make up a small percentage of the world.

	12-08-2003 22:22									#23
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I'll tell you what would happen -- people like Slowwhand and MTG would high-tail it to Mars.

	12-08-2003 22:25									#24
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quote: Plus, the people who don't want communism because they don' want to lose their wealth (such as Americans and other wealthy people) only make up a small percentage of the world.

I think there are more people out there (who may nor may not be rich at this moment) who favor capitalism in some form.

quote: I'll tell you what would happen -- people like Slowwhand and MTG would high-tail it to Mars.

Actually, this is a serious problem that any communist state must face. What happens when some of your best 'n brightest want to leave? That can't happen with the current level of technology, but while we're speculating on the future, let's imagine that it was possible to pick up and leave, go to Mars (or somewhere else) and create/join a capitalist society.

Would you let 'em go, John?

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 22:27									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Actually, this is a serious problem that any communist state must face. What happens when some of your best 'n brightest want to leave? That can't happen with the current level of technology, but while we're speculating on the future, let's imagine that it was possible to pick up and leave, go to Mars (or somewhere else) and create/join a capitalist society. Would you let 'em go, John? -Arrian

Best and brightest -- what this have to do with Slowwhand and MTG?

	12-08-2003 22:40									#26
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You're so funny!

I shoulda seen that one coming, that's for sure.

Anyway, it wouldn't just be the best 'n brightest, I'm sure. It would include anyone who didn't buy into communist ideology (or rather anyone who thought leaving, for whatever reason, was better than staying).

-Arrian

	12-08-2003 22:49									#27
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Yeah, and what if Fozzy the bear, Kermit the frog, and Big Bird were the other 3 Apocolypse horsemen? Man, it'd be a hot time in the old town.

Sometimes you scare me.

	12-08-2003 22:51									#28
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Most of these parts of the world were there is massive proverty suffer from civil war, corupt dictators and the after effect of collinization from Europe. THat is were a lot of the problem lies. Communism would just creat more opertunities for corupt officals to gain power and abuse the system to their benfits with no checks on their power. Then the whole entire world would live in proverty, and the situation would be ten times worse then it is now.