14-08-2003 00:10									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

They'll be stacked with the pikes and mi's, so they should be good, unless GoW picks now for their Waterloo.

Shiber, are you going to move 5 more knights and more pikes within range of the battle?

End turn stuff
Gift our map to RP. Also Toledo? NM? Better taxes and production under RP. Might also encourage GoW to turn back north...

Send RP a bit of gold? 20 or 40? They had to sell a barracks last turn to complete an upgrade. They may not use the gold, it may get returned to us.

	14-08-2003 00:12									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Shiber We are already silk-less, and we're doing fine in all our large cities. We can afford to wait a few turns until RP reconnects the road to Pamplona (given that it'll still be there by the time that the road is reconnected). I'm going to refuse the city.

We will be losing at least 1 lux. Ivory. Have you figured on that? I can't recall if we are getting more from RP.

	14-08-2003 00:22									#33
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Attacking...
First knight: died taking down 2 HP from a rider.
Second knight: died taking down 3 HP from a rider.
Third knight: died taking down 2 HP from a rider.
Fourth knight: won (FINALLY!) losing 1 HP.
Fifth knight: ditto.
All knights fought healthy veteran riders.
Well, that was some really bad luck...

GoW riders left in B-44 stack:
4/4, 2/4, 4/5, 1/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/5, 4/4, 4/4, a total of 31 rider HPs.
In case GoW decided to attack B-4, we have 4 healthy vet pikes, two 3/4 knights and 3 healthy vet medinfs.
GoW will have to win every single battle to break through the stack if they choose to attack.

	14-08-2003 00:35									#34
	Put an end to popups!

Even without ivory we'll be doing ok (except for Arashi, which has no marketplace and will be holding on 5 happy, 5 unhappy for quite a while (shouldn't grow soon anyway so if war weariness doesn't tilt the balance it should be ok).
We can research invention in 4 turns at -77.
Shall I upgrade an elite WC for 100 gold? (we have 405 gold)
Moving the knights in Toledo-12 to where they can do some good (NM-2, en route south). The 4 cats will move 3 and be covered by 3 pikes from NM who will enjoy grass, fortification and river bonus as well as defensive cat fire against the two GoW riders on the mountain at P-99, should they choose to attack. Or shall we leave only two pikes on the cats to bait GoW? (risky, but GoW will still have to win two unfavorable battles with a 4/4 and a 3/4 rider, and it'll be a good way to lower the risk in Pamplona if GoW takes the bait and doesn't win both attacks).
I'm loading up assorted pikes and medinfs from Stormia and switching some builds to knights (including the galley build in Hurricane; we already have more galleys than troops to transport, thank you).
Where should I move the pikes on the mountain at P-66?

	14-08-2003 00:38									#35
	Remove this text

ND's medinf ran away from the mountain at Toledo-89. I'm replacing him with one of our own pikes. I'm also going to put a medinf on Toledo-444.
Toledo is threatened by a barbarian warrior and RP won't be able to defend it. It's also a bit to close to ND's territory (two tiles lie between the cultural borders). I have no objections to returning NM though.

	14-08-2003 00:40									#36
	Put an end to popups!

3 dead knights. Ouch.

Well, out of 5 combats, I was hoping for 3 wins (4 vs. 3.3). We got 1 less win than we "should" have. That's not overly horrible.

-Arrian

	14-08-2003 00:44									#37
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What about the rest of the moves?
I'd like to finish the turn soon.

	14-08-2003 00:45									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh, and I understand that it was suggested to put some of our knights at P-96 in positions to prevent GoW from doing some pillaging?

	14-08-2003 01:06									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Shiber, I did not catch anything being moved to protect the 2 RP workers from the riders. We need 2 pikes on that blocking hill, and then the cats are perfectly safe.

	14-08-2003 01:09									#40
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You're absolutely right. I'll move two pikes from P66 8.
How shall I disperse the pikes in NM before I hand it back? I suppose that we want some heading south, but we can also use some in the area of Pamplona.

	14-08-2003 01:22									#41
	Put an end to popups!

I proposed 2 pikes from NM on that hill to protect the workers.

The 2 on the mountain can push to P 9 6 to take over holding that, freeing knights for other action.

	14-08-2003 01:24									#42
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Sounds good. Does anyone object?

On to the rest of the stuff. Should I do something with the knights at P69, to prevent GoW from pillaging any roads or something?

	14-08-2003 01:25									#43
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3 of them go to P 9 and fortify.

It is 50-50 if the riders attack them. They will not attack.

/Addit: P9 should be the road that is open next to Pamplona.

	14-08-2003 01:32									#44
	Put an end to popups!

I'm an idiot.
I moved the wounded knight that attacked the lone rider last turn into NM to "heal". When we gift the city he'll be teleported back home.

	14-08-2003 01:55									#45
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I need to know if I should upgrade an elite WC this turn for 100 gold (our treasury is 405).

	14-08-2003 02:03									#46
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I can't stay anymore.
I didn't upgrade the WC.
The rest of the turn can be reconstructed from the posts on this thread. If there's something specific that you want to know, ask and I'll post my answer tomorrow morning.

	14-08-2003 02:32									#47
	Put an end to popups!

Where is everybody?

Shiber, so you aren't going to be able to play & pass the turn?

Is Nathan officially no longer playing the turns yet? So who does that leave to play this thing and get it moved on?

NYE can you get a hold of it and play it?

-Arrian

	14-08-2003 02:38									#48
	Put an end to popups!

I think he meant he is going ahead and sending the file. I do hope Shiber moved our empty galleys back home for a refill...
The teleported knight: that's a shame, but we can manage without it for now...

Shiber- next time you're playing the turn, if its on a reasonable hour (before 01:00 AM), don't hesitate to call me on the cel or send an SMS, two brains are better than one, especially for detecting all kinds of little thingies...

	14-08-2003 02:42									#49
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by zeit Shiber- next time you're playing the turn, if its on a reasonable hour (before 01:00 AM), don't hesitate to call me on the cel or send an SMS, two brains are better than one, especially for detecting all kinds of little thingies...

Yea, and if it's after 1am, you can always call Theseus.

	14-08-2003 04:47									#50
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, I remembered about the galleys.
The screenshots don't show it, but coincidentally, I ended up putting at least one galley in every tile on the crossing between Bob and Stormia
(and to think that we used to be so worried about establishing presence in the crossing )

	14-08-2003 06:41									#51
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well played... sorry I haven't been around too much this week.

SR, I knew you've been lurking... and I bet Nathan's around too!

I can just just see him at his computer: "I will not post. I will not post. Shiber can do the turn, really it's fine... no no, really it's fine. Hmmm, will he remember to switch tile usage around Arashi? It's fine. Nooooo posting. Fine. Fine. Maybe if I just... no, no, it's fine."

I dunno about you guys, but even when I'm not actively posting I get in here a LOT.

Does anybody else REALLY REALLY want our Cats back? Has RP even used them effectively? I think of the attack stack next to Barcelona, and damn if I don't want at least 4 more Cats there... in fact, how would our eastern coast strategy have been different with them at our disposal?

Re the feel of the wars...

GoW is dancing, but has more coming. Let's deal with this stack, but I wouldn't be so sanguine about giving RP cities back that will be exposed to the north.

ND worries the ever-luvin' cr*p outta me. They've got decent production, and play pretty darned well (e.g., the military camp was particularly nice...).

It's time to turn on the heat.

	14-08-2003 07:42									#52
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Uhmmm. Why do we have a full strength elite and a full strength vet galley in Wittlich City?

	14-08-2003 08:56									#53
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I suppose, they are the 2 that killed the two GoW galleys and were sent there to heal.

	14-08-2003 15:16									#54
	Remove this text

True, they healed this turn and I was too stupid to ask the team what to do with them.
Should we keep both around to sink any more GoW galleys that pop up? Should we send both to the crossing? Should we send just one? If so, which one, the vet or the elite?

	14-08-2003 15:28									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree on turning up the heat- especially against ND (well, they're the only ones having some hit to turn... ). I was actually thinking of gifting RP all the Cats we have there- and have them send an attack on Z, while we use our knights to back them up and counter attack ('guarding their flank' as in the roman tactics). OR, we could stage a diversionary attack on Leon, but maybe that's a bit too much when GoW's riders could easily turn and pound the relatively lightly defended P...

About Toledo- we could send another Pike on the lookout on one of the unoccupied mountains east of T, along with the one on T89, this gives us view of any GoW movements through that area. As long as we keep a small garrison in the area within 3 turns reach, there's no need to avoid gifting it back.

	14-08-2003 15:40									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

Zeit: you're correct about Toledo.
But I want to get rid of the barbarian warrior that's threatening the town first.

	14-08-2003 16:50									#57
	Got spare money?

I don't have time to get involved in the military side, but here are my economic thoughts for the turn. (Note: I haven't read anything in the turn thread, so if someone's suggesting something else economy-wise, I haven't taken it into consideration.)

Workers:

Worker near EotS heads north.
Workers by Bolderberg road.
Workers by Monsoon finish the mine at Arashi 8-9 and start a mine at Dissidentville 2.
Workers by Santa Ana move 7 and mine.
Worker at SA 8-7 starts roading.
Worker at D9-9 starts clearing jungle.
Worker at WoC 3 joins the gang at WoC 4.
Worker at BbtS 2 starts road.
Worker at BbtS 1 and pike at BbtS 7 change places.

Cities:

Monsoon - Move the laborer from the hill at Monsoon 1 to a coast tile. The production loss doesn't matter, and we can use the food.
Whirlwind - Move the laborer currently on the incense tile to the hill tile Monsoon just vacated.
Tempest - Move one of the mountain laborers to the irrigated plains at Tempest 2-3. We're starving! Also move the other mountain laborer to the irrigated incense desert, giving us a food surplus without a meaningful loss of production.
Hurricane: Move a laborer from a non-fur plains near Sandstorm to a coast tile. This gives us steady-state 15-shield net production.
Sandstorm: Move one mountain laborer to the vacated plains and the other to desert. Settler is expected in two turns thanks to the extra shields when we grow, even though it says three.

	14-08-2003 17:23									#58
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Uhh... I really hope this is for the next turn because I have already played this one (our final deadline passed about 12 hours ago anyway).

	14-08-2003 21:58									#59
	Got spare money?

I guess it'll have to wait till next turn...

But Tempest is okay, it has exactly one more turn before it really starts losing pop.