13-08-2003 09:03									#1
	Turn 104, 490BC Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- In Anarchy (2 turns to go according to DomAdvisor)
- Researching Engineering (38) 1 scientist.
- 85 gold. +2 gpt, 2 taxmen
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- Science will be set to 0 when we come out of anarchy, to enable us to upgrade swords and warriors.

Urgent questions & tasks
3 cities to name. Cuido and Possum are not too important. They will be moved, most likely. Fortress needs something fitting.

Unit Movement & Actions:

All units in Army Group A (AGA) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA contains: 3 vet Horseman, 9 vet Swordsmen, 1 vet NM, 1 elite Warrior (14 units)

G01 I. PoA [Flash] moves 2-2-2 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with Flash.
G02 II. Expedition [Jagjef] moves 2-2-1 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with Jagjef.

PoA and Expedition will eventually meet in ~3 turns to transfer both Swords to one ship.

S05 V. Hack moves 4; heading for the barb camp to the northwest.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 2.
N04 IV. Togas moves 3-2-2; he will be moved to the Chokepoint to guard the city and a possible future silk colony.
N05 V. Enamel moves 2; looking for barb camp.

W02 II. BigFree moves 1 onto the hilled road; he will be used to run a loop on the road system to see if GCA is up to anything.
W03 III. Alva moves 3; looking for barb camp.
W05 V. BFW moves 2 into BFC.
W07 VII. WhiteBandit fortifies in the Chokepoint.
W12 XII. WWNN skips turn.

All other units to remain as they are.

Economy:
Change Hispanica to Palace to direct soon to be completed chop to BFC
To be added to by MoI

WF:
3 cities grow. Mingapulco will need to be rearranged to give Karina a tile.

Workers:
To be added by MoI


Diplomacy:
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117


Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by Trip on 15-08-2003 at 05:04

	13-08-2003 09:28									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

If we want to direct the forest chops near Hispanica we'll need to do so soon. 4 turns until the first chop (for BFC) completes, so that's probably 3 turns in actuality (after taking out the final turn which won't be in anarchy).

	13-08-2003 09:38									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Does that include the one turn that PTW 1.21 PBEM shaves off worker actions? Or did they fix that in 1.27?

	13-08-2003 09:41									#4
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I think it was changed for 1.21f on purpose.

Either way, you're right though, it may or may not finish in 3 turns exactly, so we ought to switch Hispanica to a wonder or something next turn.

	13-08-2003 09:46									#5
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Very good points. Above edited.

	14-08-2003 08:09									#6
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All units in Army Group A (AGA) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA contains: 3 vet Horseman, 9 vet Swordsmen, 1 vet NM, 1 elite Warrior (14 units)

G01 I. PoA [Flash] moves 2-2-2 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with Flash.
G02 II. Expedition [Jagjef] moves 2-2-1 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with Jagjef.

PoA and Expedition will eventually meet in ~3 turns to transfer both Swords to one ship.

S05 V. Hack moves 4; heading for the barb camp to the northwest.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 2.
N04 IV. Togas moves 3-2-2; he will be moved to the Chokepoint to guard the city and a possible future silk colony.
N05 V. Enamel moves 2; looking for barb camp.

W02 II. BigFree moves 1 onto the hilled road; he will be used to run a loop on the road system to see if GCA is up to anything.
W03 III. Alva moves 3; looking for barb camp.
W05 V. BFW moves 2 into BFC.
W07 VII. WhiteBandit fortifies in the Chokepoint.
W12 XII. WWNN skips turn.

All other units to remain as they are.

Last edited by Trip on 15-08-2003 at 05:04

	14-08-2003 08:26									#7
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Question: why is the current turn thread topped? Should there not be enough discussion in it to keep it up?

	14-08-2003 08:30									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Either BF or Dubya topped one. I have continued topping them. It does help me, I find. Not all turns have had a lot of discussion.

	14-08-2003 22:30									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Another issue which has been brought up recently is which small cities we want to grow a bit and which we want to get another Worker from. Right now we have 4 small cities which we have been producing Workers from (HoD, Lux, Karina, BB) and NYE and I agreed that we should probably get 2 more Workers from them and let the other 2 grow in order to generate some more cash for our ailing economy.

We also agreed that Lux should be 1 of the two we let grow, mainly for the reason that it's near the river and because it will have the least corruption of any of the 4 cities. Which of the other 3 cities has the least corruption after that? After the 3 Worker-pairs to the SE of Lux are finished we'll have a bunch of river tiles for Karina, Lux or BB to work, so probably Karina or BB we should let grow to use those, depending on which has the least corruption (BB?).

	15-08-2003 05:06									#10
	Got spare money?

Also, doesn't seem likely we'll ever get much growth out of the Chokepoint city. I would suggest switching Bananatopia (or is it Mingapulco?) from Scientist to Taxman and the Chokepoint city to the Scientist, keeping it that way until Republic (and 10% luxuries) can make the cities at home usable again.

	15-08-2003 06:07									#11
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Turn is here.

Only a few things going on. 3 barbs in sight, 2 in the west and 1 in the east. Size 6 Webringen (GWT) is in the top 5 cities list. Catchopolis and Shen Ling are both size 6 and not growing. We're still 7th in MFG with 0 (meaning no one else is in anarchy). We're now 4th in Literacy.

	15-08-2003 06:14									#12
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Firaxis' score is in trouble. Last turn they went up 3 points, this turn 0.



It may be a very empty world soon.

Edit: Firaxis' score actually went up ZERO this turn, not one.

Last edited by Trip on 15-08-2003 at 07:08

	15-08-2003 06:25									#13
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New thought:

Firaxis' score drops, Webringen enters the top 5 for the first time since turn 15.

Who wants to take the bet that Firaxis just lost its capital?

	15-08-2003 06:48									#14
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Demographics Analysis

Colors match in-game colors (estimates). Known civs are underlined. Apolyton values are bolded.

CGN
GWT
Apolyton
GCA
CFC
Firaxis
Grenouille

Values This Turn:

GNP (commerce before corruption):
?, 87+, 70, 39, 34, 26, 16

MFG cannot be calculated in anarchy.

	15-08-2003 07:01									#15
	Remove this text

Trip - don't plot CDG's scores anymore since that 0 will bring down the average and it technically doesn't count. Just don't enter anything into the spreadsheet for CDG's box from now on.

Basically, their line should cease to exist from now on.

	15-08-2003 07:04									#16
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But they suck, and deserve a 0.
Besides, even if I leave a blank it drops the average. I probably deleted something I shouldn't have.

	15-08-2003 07:21									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Trip, u can wipe them out from Turn 1, and reduce the number of civilisation to 7.

	15-08-2003 07:34									#18
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It doesn't surprise me that Firaxis and Grenny are getting the snot kicked out of them. One of the basic precepts of MP-online play is that the MOMENT you have a decisive advantage, you use it to pound the other guy into the dirt, because if you wait, HE might get the advantage.

Looking at those scores, it seems the advantage was pretty clear. I'm surprised it took this long.

Not to be a dire forecaster, but MP-online also has another common precept:

Very, very rarely do players of different skill levels survive into the Industrial.

CDG was the worst "skill level" and they're first out. CFC, had we not gotten involved, would have been second. GCA, with their poor diplomatic skills, will be second.

The flow of this game is actually very normal for MP-online play. By the Industrial, our continent will be ours alone, and there will be two powers - easy bets on who - on the other continent.

And, to be frank:
The next power out will be the one who loses the diplomatic game. Luckily, as we are not on that continent, it will probably not be us... but we should be very careful which side we align ourselves with at that time.

	15-08-2003 08:24									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Trip But they suck, and deserve a 0. Besides, even if I leave a blank it drops the average. I probably deleted something I shouldn't have.

The averages field is dividing by 8, we want it to divide by 7 since there are only 7 civs left.

If you can't figure it out, send me the latest spreadsheet and I can update it for you and send it back.

	15-08-2003 09:37									#20
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Palace Expansion:
The people love us. They build steps to the palace.


Unit Movement and Actions:
N05 'Enamel' attacks Gaul warrior at 6. Gaul dead. No damage. Gaul camp at 3
N01 'MerZenary' moves 2
N04 'Togas' moves 3-2-2

S05 'Hack' moves 4

W02 'BigFree' moves 1. Spots a GCA spear and sword at Elucidium 8 9 (CDG's iron on the hill).
W03 'Alva' moves 2 to support Enamel
W05 'BFW' moves 2
W07 'WhiteBandit' fortifies
W12 'Warrior With No Name' skips turn

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' [S02] moves 2 2 2. Fortify all
G02 'AS Expedition' [S01] moves 1 1 1. Fortify all

S01 'jagjef' unloads 1

All other units to remain as they are.


Economy: - all builds are suspended as we are in anarchy.
Apolyton building merc (4)
Mingapulco building merc (5)
Banantopia building temple (1)
Incensity building merc (2)
Tripoli building barracks (4)
Fortress of the Possums building walls (a long time)
Cuido de Alcohol building walls (11)
Hispanica changed to palace. Will be changed back to building temple (16) after 1st chop is done
Possumopolis building walls (11)
Karina building worker (3)
LuxInvicta building worker (3)
Big Bend building worker (6)
BigFurryCity building to temple (12)
Heart of Darkness set to worker (1)

Work Force:
Apolyton NC. tax collector
Mingapulco change to 2-10-12-15-tax collector
Banantopia NC. scientist
Incensity NC
Tripoli change NC
Fortress of the Possums NC
Cuido de Alcohol NC
Hispanica NC
Possumopolis NC
Karina change to 3-9
LuxInvicta NC
Big Bend NC
BigFurryCity NC
Heart of Darkness NC

Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' clearing (3) Big Bend 7
Worker02: 'Monkee' clearing (7) Big bend 8
Worker03: 'panag' chopping (8) Hisp 4
Worker04: 'EVC' clearing (3) HoD 6
Worker05: 'Dejon' clearing (3) HoD 6
Worker06: 'MrWIA'mining (11) Mingapulco 7
Worker07: 'Rush' mining (11) Apolyton 7
Worker08: 'Yo' roading (8) Cuido de Alocohol 2
Worker09: 'Calc II' clearing (7) Big bend 8
Worker10: 'Spink' chopping (3) Hispanica 9
Worker11: 'Horse' clearing (11) Bananatopia 3
Worker12: 'Squid' clearing (11) Bananatopia 3
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (11) Lux 3
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (11) Lux 3
Worker15: 'Gits' clearing (3) Big Bend 7
Worker16s: 'Farb' roading (18)

Slider: Set to 10/0/0 tax/sci/lux. +2gpt. 85 gold.
1 scientist. Engineering in 38

	15-08-2003 12:47									#22
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Trip, can you please explain what the heck you are doing with our Galleys and the units onboard them?

The Poll is pretty conclusive on what to do. Please issue orders to get PoA back to the launch point with it's cargo onboard.

	15-08-2003 12:57									#23
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BigFree, was it clear to just launch from the nearest available suicide point?

I was told you were aware of a plan to deliver 2 swords to GCA's iron via one of the galleys, and I understood you apporved of it. Was this report to me incorrect?

	15-08-2003 14:04									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, the report was incorrect. I was faintly aware it was being discussed, but I did not give my approval of it.

It may have been a misunderstanding though; no need to make heads roll just yet.

Trip, read my post in the "Urgent or not" thread. Let me know if something like I explain is doable in your opinion.

I think I have stated this many times, but I will again. I like the idea of suiciding one Galley. But, if there were a specific coherent plan to use them for military action against GCA, then I would look at it and then decide again, possibly in favor of the military action.

I have submitted one possible action that I would support over suiciding the Galley. There may be other's, but I have yet to hear of one that I would support.

	16-08-2003 20:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Trip New thought: Firaxis' score drops, Webringen enters the top 5 for the first time since turn 15. Who wants to take the bet that Firaxis just lost its capital?

It's trival, but Webringen enters the top 5 for the first time since Turn 12, not 15. I knew, because I have finished loading all the Top 5 Cities statistics into a spreadsheet.

Also, from the picture of their capital, we can confirm that they are in the Medival Age.

	16-08-2003 20:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by rush It's trival, but Webringen enters the top 5 for the first time since Turn 12, not 15. I knew, because I have finished loading all the Top 5 Cities statistics into a spreadsheet. Also, from the picture of their capital, we can confirm that they are in the Medival Age. http://apolyton.net/upload/files/rush/webrings.jpg

It was a rough guestimate.