18-11-2003 03:13									#271
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I proposed a new game on wednesday as I can't make thursdays.

However, I still think this game is screwed and dont realy want to continue. I talked to Vetlegion about this and from what he told me I think he feels the same.

	18-11-2003 03:27									#272
	Wednesday should be OK for Kengel´s new game Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

both for me and deity too!

But what is screwed in this game? It's interesting and no winner is clear yet...

Let's play the game until the end. After that we can start a new game on the same time spot if we want 2 play evenings/week in the long run.

Last edited by winzity on 18-11-2003 at 04:03

	18-11-2003 04:08									#273
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion I suggest we blame CapTVK (sacrificial lamb) for not including rules of conduct or war in the FAQ - and continue our game.

I will be sure to include it in my revised and updated version of the DiploFAQ.

	18-11-2003 04:18									#274
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Winzity, what you are not doing is paying attention.

Germanos decided he will not continue. I conclude that from the fact that he did not reply to the offer to continue.

So, to continue, we need a permanent sub who would be willing to take the weakest civ. My offer to give back what I conquered was and still is valid for Germanos only.

If such a sub can be found, I am willing to continue the game.

	18-11-2003 04:21									#275
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I can take his position, which is not the weakest, and someone else can take mine.

	18-11-2003 04:48									#276
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He lost his main 3 city's with HG and Bach, how on earth can you say Frysians are not the weakest civ?

He has a couple of city's in NA, 3 in Europe and 2 in Marokko. Frysians is finished.

	18-11-2003 05:34									#277
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Diplo games are more than a Diploamtic game with no wars. I beleive the whole term diplo should be remvoed and call it more of a RPG. It means you play your civ as if it was real and that consequences are there for yuor activities. If war breaks out, other civs, instead of looking back nad thinking good one lessplayer soon, should get together t oaid the unfortunate. EWither by supplyiong techs, citys, units or even joining the war.

Many times in Diplo the fear of starting a world war are enough to prevent smallones starting. Usually wars start in diplo much later in game, once all land is taken. But border wars do occur, but in diplo games they should not be about capturing all the enemy citys, but simply battling for that border.

It is hard some times to get nebies to Diplo style to see how it goes, in not about conquest, it all about enjoying the game for the interaction. Ther friendships formed. AS Germanos says, if you simply in the game to win you dont understand diplo at all. it aout far more than that.

So many diplo games fail because one or more palyers fail to play the true style.

Agreements of course can be broken in the game, but as in life trust no one.

The thing with diplo is that usualy there islots of tech tradinf even city trading and more, the helping of the weaker civ is also common.

I am usually the weaker civ and i still enjoy diplo style games more than normal mp, in fact i never paly a normal game (well almost never)

I suggest you guys help out the germanos civ and get him back in game, a weak civ is not good for diplo

JUST my 2 bits worth

	18-11-2003 16:17									#278
	Guys it DIPLO gaming! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Winzity, what you are not doing is paying attention

Of course I pay attention! You should try to put "little" more effort to finish a game you have started in!

This is a diplo game and as a such you should continue to play YOUR role even if you not are strong enough to "win" the game, because diplo games are NOT about winning!

Weak civ can do pretty well in diplo games if they negotiate well. The most important thing for them is to be friends with other players in the game - that will normally result in that they get helped, at least at the moment major alliances are formed. That help occours often naturally because the weak civ can help the alliance if they get help in form of techs, units and so on.

That means the alliance have to help the weak civ to get benefits from them - so it's a win win situation.

Of course there is a possibility to agree among all players to help a weak civ in extreme situations...

The important thing with play diplo is that the game should NOT collapse as soon a civ feel little weak. A such collapse only indicates that the weak player not have RIGHT attitude to diplo gaming.

	18-11-2003 16:33									#279
	Great ljcvetko! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko I can take his position, which is not the weakest, and someone else can take mine.

	18-11-2003 16:36									#280
	Right way... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin I suggest you guys help out the germanos civ and get him back in game, a weak civ is not good for diplo.

Of course we will do that! It's the only right thing to do!

	18-11-2003 22:00									#281
	Re: Guys it DIPLO gaming! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Winz: This started out as a diplogame with the storythread and all.

Now you would you considder it playing in the diplo if one player never reads the thread let alone posts in it?

For the last couple of sessions you dont respond to KC and are nearly impossible to reach on ICQ. I had to ask you on both sessions if you read my proposals for our differences in the Pacific, on both accounts you didn't.

Now I would want to continue the game diplostyle but then I would expect ALL players to actively participate in the discussions on KC and threads.

As the situation is now with 4 players and 1 AI I realy see no point in continueing this diplostyle, we could end it like a wargame but that would only make the game more dissapointing to me.

	18-11-2003 22:06									#282
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If we could find another player to take over the Ethiopians, this could be a great wargame finale.

Four of us against one of you

	18-11-2003 22:09									#283
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Anyway, let's think about possible resumption of this game during the coming week. If we can't find a fifth player and if two out of four players are not interested, then I'll just post my two last stories and call it quits.

	19-11-2003 00:11									#284
	Atawa I suggest you stop blame me! Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by atawa Winz: This started out as a diplogame with the storythread and all. Now you would you considder it playing in the diplo if one player never reads the thread let alone posts in it? For the last couple of sessions you dont respond to KC and are nearly impossible to reach on ICQ. I had to ask you on both sessions if you read my proposals for our differences in the Pacific, on both accounts you didn't. Now I would want to continue the game diplostyle but then I would expect ALL players to actively participate in the discussions on KC and threads. As the situation is now with 4 players and 1 AI I realy see no point in continueing this diplostyle, we could end it like a wargame but that would only make the game more dissapointing to me.

I can only see one reason you blame me. You don't like your situation in the game. I have give you all replies you needed to your proposals.

Atawa you must understand that one possible diplomatic action is to not respond to a threat or unwished proposal.

	19-11-2003 00:13									#285
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quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko If we could find another player to take over the Ethiopians, this could be a great wargame finale. Four of us against one of you

Nah, you would start fighting amongst yourselves before you captured the Maori homelands of witch I can build into a fortress that will stand untill battleships come into play


But seriously, why would the Ethiopian nation sneak attack their friends and tradingpartners We traded often with Ethiopians and paid over 1500 gold in port tax, we also shared our knowledge around the world, knowing that the Ethipoian people also got this knowledge for free.

If the Maori people had wanted they would have been in Fundi a while ago and would have had 50 city's with the fundi benifits of the great temple of Kula

It would have been easy to take out Beijing while bombarding the coastline of China with vans.

But instead the Maori chose to stay in Demo, trading and spreading knowledge over the world.

	19-11-2003 00:55									#286
	Re: Atawa I suggest you stop blame me! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by winzity I can only see one reason you blame me. You don't like your situation in the game. I have give you all replies you needed to your proposals. Atawa you must understand that one possible diplomatic action is to not respond to a threat or unwished proposal.

No Winz, the point I'm making that this started out as a diplothread and you just play your usual type of game without actualy getting involved in the game

To me the main reason I wanted to play this was of the KC discussions, the rollplaying and the storythreads.
(To me this thread is more about gamereport and diplomatic interaction then story on my end but both are fun to read )

If one player completely ignores this part of the game then this makes the game less fun to play if he is your only neighbour in a 5-way.

Now Germanos leaves and the game collapses, in one night this went from a develloping diplogame to just another bloodfest.

Now this is not the type of game we started, as I said I would like to continue, but then as a diplogame.

And what realy annoys me in all of this is that the player who has contributed the least to this game in the diplosence now HAS to end this game, and is attacking me on the fact that I prefer to end the game becouse the fun has gone out of is and basicly the tuesdaynight diplogame is screwed beyond repair.

But here is my deal for Vetlegion if you so desperately want to finish this:

We offer to gift all our 10 city's in the whole of Whananga together with all our tech if the Slaven join us in a crusade to rid the world of the chinese.

	19-11-2003 01:32									#287
	Re: Re: Atawa I suggest you stop blame me! Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by atawa To me the main reason I wanted to play this was of the KC discussions, the rollplaying and the storythreads. (To me this thread is more about gamereport and diplomatic interaction then story on my end but both are fun to read )

Me too. I don't really care is someone's style short or long, humoristic or epic, with pictures or Angelina Jolie or without... I simply like to read the contributions.

I know we have all been somewhat lagging in the stories, but winzity you completely ignored the story thread.

As DiploFAQ says, diplomacy is what keeps these games together.

Anyway, I do not want to it seem like I am bashing you alone, I also contributed far less then I should have, even though I promised myself when we begun - one post per session as the norm.

quote: We offer to gift all our 10 city's in the whole of Whananga together with all our tech if the Slaven join us in a crusade to rid the world of the chinese.

I don't see the fun in long protracted multiplayer wargame. I never played one so I might be wrong, but I do not wan't to play it anyway.

Winzity agreed on ICQ to quit playing History of Mankind if everyone else agrees.

I agree.

I have prepared my closing post for the story thread too.

We should only finish if all players consent, so Ljube, please let us know on the forum.

Btw., depending on time and other things, I may be looking for another diplogame, same or similar time. Kengel's game seems to be a wargame, so there is some organizing to be done if there are more players interested.

	19-11-2003 15:48									#288
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Nah, you would start fighting amongst yourselves before you captured the Maori homelands of witch I can build into a fortress that will stand untill battleships come into play But seriously, why would the Ethiopian nation sneak attack their friends and tradingpartners We traded often with Ethiopians and paid over 1500 gold in port tax, we also shared our knowledge around the world, knowing that the Ethipoian people also got this knowledge for free. If the Maori people had wanted they would have been in Fundi a while ago and would have had 50 city's with the fundi benifits of the great temple of Kula It would have been easy to take out Beijing while bombarding the coastline of China with vans. But instead the Maori chose to stay in Demo, trading and spreading knowledge over the world.

Ah, but Maori spies killed our consul Anwar Sadat.
I am going to post a story about that

	19-11-2003 15:57									#289
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And yes, we can end this game, because had this been a war game from the beginning, all of us would have played it quite differently.

Let me just tell you atawa that I was planning to sneak attack you. A fleet of 11 frigates, 3 of which vet, were near your ports. I know that wouldn't have meant much, but if you had been assaulted by the others simultaneously, the attack just might have worked