05-11-2003 00:07									#241
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm here. ICQ won't connect.

Winz: please post IP here.

	10-11-2003 20:30									#242
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Guys, what went wrong in the end of last game, and why do I have to reload my auto?
I guess it would mean I must redo my turn, right? I would really hate that.


Reading the KC just now, I finally understood all of Ljcvetko's confusion .
VetLegion signed off, and Winzity was to save as soon as atawa was done, so I started managing my civ. I am quite surprised to see now that VetLegion didn't leave at all, but happily chatted away!
If you really want my attention, ICQ me or contact me via F3, is that so hard to figure out

	11-11-2003 02:24									#243
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Leader of the Maori built the Statue of Liberty, so worshipping of the Idol would give meaning to his empty decadent life

The problem he got is, upon building it, he did not get the popup screen that asks him to change the government. That is why he asked to start from your autosave next time.

	11-11-2003 02:28									#244
	Got spare money?

quote: VetLegion signed off, and Winzity was to save as soon as atawa was done, so I started managing my civ. I am quite surprised to see now that VetLegion didn't leave at all, but happily chatted away!

Errr... this sounds like I cheated or something? I did not sign off, I said I have to go, which I had, and stayed for the duration of your turn, do I have to give explanations for that or something?

	11-11-2003 03:13									#245
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion quote: VetLegion signed off, and Winzity was to save as soon as atawa was done, so I started managing my civ. I am quite surprised to see now that VetLegion didn't leave at all, but happily chatted away! Errr... this sounds like I cheated or something? I did not sign off, I said I have to go, which I had, and stayed for the duration of your turn, do I have to give explanations for that or something?

My dear friend: it would not be the first time you announce you have to go, and drop the very second afterwards.
I was merely stating I was surprised to find out now, that all kind of insinuations were posted in the KC (after your announcement) on me not wanting to discuss peace, and people were pissed of I don't reply to that.
I was merely stating I didn't expect you to be around after your announcement, let alone to start actively posting about my silence.
Suddenly I got messages about my autosave, and people started dropping like flies.


Your insinuations that you would be cheating are plain stupid.

	11-11-2003 08:13									#246
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The great Diplo scribe, Ozzy of KPia sits to ponder over the new revision of the honored Diplo FAQ. "What shall the next chapter be?", he thinks, "ah yes of course, not carrying in-game conflicts into real life and not allowing mistrust and suspicion in the game affect relationships out of the game." He starts to outline the chapter.

A voice calls out to him, "Sir Ozzy, your Diplo FAQ revisions are most needed. The diploland is in jeopardy. Your scrolls of wisdom are needed to bring the people back to the light for they have gone astray."

Feeling needed, he increases the pace of his work.

	11-11-2003 15:21									#247
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Leader of the Maori built the Statue of Liberty, so worshipping of the Idol would give meaning to his empty decadent life The problem he got is, upon building it, he did not get the popup screen that asks him to change the government. That is why he asked to start from your autosave next time.

So what? He'll have a chance next turn. Who says it'll work this time?

We can start from my autosave, I'll ctrl-N, and we'll see what happenes. If he'll be able to choose government, I'll replay, but if not, we can start from his autosave.

	11-11-2003 17:21									#248
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Germanos, good thinking. Perfectly fine with me.
You need to send your autosave to winzity if he will host. I hope we can do all this under 20 minutes


About posting about your silence; yes, I took time after my turn to post about peace prospects etc. Some others also commented your silence, but I think in regards to the autosave thing, not the negotiations. Anyway I do not think there is anything about those couple dozen chat lines to argue about, so this is quite pointless

	11-11-2003 17:23									#249
	Remove this text

Ozzy, I fully support the building of the new diplo FAQ

Glad if we can be some inspiration too

	11-11-2003 17:24									#250
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

We better start from your autosave, I'm sure this was just another bug.

(And going into anarchy now would could serious unhappyness problems)

	11-11-2003 17:25									#251
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Oh and Germanos, please give me a sec before ending turn, I only rushbuild the statue during your turn so I need some time to fix things again.

	11-11-2003 19:21									#252
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion About posting about your silence; yes, I took time after my turn to post about peace prospects etc. Some others also commented your silence, but I think in regards to the autosave thing, not the negotiations. Anyway I do not think there is anything about those couple dozen chat lines to argue about, so this is quite pointless

First of all, the message was more directed at Ljube, as I got a angry Ljube at ICQ, because I didn't respond to his messages (at the KingChat). And there is the accusation at the KC that I am bloodthirsty, and that is why I didn't respond. So I thought it might be a good idea to tell you all I never saw those messages, as I thought you had left, so I certainly didn't expect anything from you there.

	11-11-2003 20:47									#253
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Two files for winzity:

*auto is the autosave
*ctrlN is the file we will try first.

atawa: just rushbuild the SoL, tell me, and I will press 'enter'. We'll see what happenes then.

Attachment: session9.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	11-11-2003 23:14									#254
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I changed the names of col and sun.

Edit: Deleted the wrong attachment.

Last edited by Ljube on 11-11-2003 at 23:40

	11-11-2003 23:16									#255
	I will be 1 hour late today Put an end to popups!

I have a work meeting so I will be around 1 hour late today. I hope all will be online so we can start as soon I am back.

	11-11-2003 23:39									#257
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I made a mistake in the last attachment.

This is the correct one.

Attachment: rules.txt
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	11-11-2003 23:40									#258
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

LOL!!!

Wouldnt it be wise to actualy build Leo's before renaming it?

	11-11-2003 23:47									#259
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Damn, ICQ is acting up, AGAIN!

Would it be a good idea to test the whole SoL thing now, before Mr. PEOPLE GET HERE ON TIME!-zity finally shows up?

I could probably host for this trial version.

reply here, as ICQ won't connect.

	11-11-2003 23:49									#260
	Got spare money?

sure

	11-11-2003 23:53									#261
	Put an end to popups!

Yes, an we're particularly happy because of the fact that peace returned to Europe

	12-11-2003 00:55									#262
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

aatawa and me checked the files, and I will have to redo my turn. I will in my turn give Vet the city I promised (IJlst).

So winzity: you will have to load the * auto save.

	12-11-2003 02:35									#263
	Put an end to popups!

OK guys, I will quit after this session. Let's see if any of you will get this message during the session or not. Not that it matters. I'm merely posting it now, (when we have just started our session, not before we start, nor after we have finished) for two reasons:
1: I've allready made up my mind, what happenes tonight doesn't matter.
2: It will not affect my gameplay, but it may affect yours :

I am not enjoying playing a 'diplo'. It's my first, and to some degree my first MP as well, but this is a stupid game. I'd rather play a regular MP: there I know nobody can be trusted, and that diplomacy will play a little role. But I thought diplo meant diplomacy, but there is none here.

I play these games for leisure, to have a good time in the evening. Whenever I play games, I play with other people, and while winning is the goal of the game, the purpose of playing a game is to enjoy my time playing with some people.
To me it looked that a diplo would best create such an atmosphere, and when the second diplo started soon after us, it appeared my initial guess was right: newbies were encouraged to join, as a diplo was to be a good way to get acquainted with MP.

I would have thought that in a diplo, talk would have an equal important part in the game as moving your units, but here that is certainly not the case. I would have thought, as the famous CapTVK Diplo-guide states, that cooperation would be part of the game as well, and the game would not be about knocking people over as soon as possible. Here, before I had even settled my third city, I was allready being cornered.

I would have thought, that people would stick to their agreements, and not opportunisticly shout some promises, and then back down on them as soon as the occasion would arise. In my game, many promises have been made to me, but very few have been honoured. I have been doublecrossed from the very first session, and while at first I thought these would be anomalies, and a few talks with players after the sessions seemed to confirm this feeling, I must now say that it appears to be a pattern.
I have shared my technologies with many other players, to get as soon as possible to monarchy for example, only to witness this was being used against me.
People have asked me for techs, and they would give some tech back later. In all cases I had to find out myself they allready got the promised tech, and I would have to beg them to honour their promise. It may be because these agreements sometimes crossed sesions, but still: I have made many moves to get some goodwill and cooperation from players, but all I experience is distrust, bigotry and false accusations.

All this I would have expected in a regular MP, but not in a diplo-game.
For the last few sessions, I really had to drag myself to the computer, to play my session. I played since I had made a commitment. But I will retreat after this session. This game seems not to be anything more then a regular game. There is no diplomacy, either ingame, or during the weekdays in between sessions. Maybe the timer has something to with the absense of diplomacy ingame, I don't know.

I probably made a big mistake with my attack on VetLegion in the first session, since it surely killed all diplomacy between the two of us. Maybe all you other players have drawn your conclusions from that as well. I'm sorry if I screwed up there, and that it has been me who have killed the diplo from the start.

Anyway, I am tired of dragging myself to the game for these sessions, so I will play a last one, and I hope I will leave a decent civ for anyone who will take over my civ.

I do not have the energy to do any diplomacy anymore, so there is no use for me to stay in the game. After 8 sessions of this game being diplomacy-less, I cannot be bothered to continue trying. This week saw a few posts in the game thread, but they have not allowed for any diplomacy to go on. I beleive there is no use for me in this exercise anymore. I had hoped for some clues as to play MP, to get acquainted with the interface and such, to have some fun with gamers, but my conclusion is that the game is more about who sides with who, and all is directed to that. What I do, what relations I build are of no importance. What is important is what other players say about me. It really doesn't matter what I do, all that matters is what other players say I do, and my word means nothing, nor do my actions, nor does my retraint.
In other words: I am not judged on my own merit, but I must fight an uphill battle against prejudice and gossip. When that is the case, I don't see any diplomacy. Then my sole goal should be to build an army, and kill at will. For that, I do not need a diplomacy game.

I do not know any other MP'ers then you, so I must leave it to you all to find a replacement, or for you to carve up my civ the next session.

Farewell, germanos.

	12-11-2003 04:05									#264
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Shall we call this game quits or do the others want to continue with a sub?
(Providing we can get one off course)

	12-11-2003 04:27									#265
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Well, things went worse then I expected.

There is no use finding a replacement for me. With Sneek lost, have decided to starve the rest of my empire for a few turns now. There is little honour in taking command of the ruins of my empire.

I'm a quitter.

	12-11-2003 04:43									#266
	Last save and we need a new player... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Attached is last save.

Germanos says he quits the game so we must get a new permanent player. Somebody interested please post here.

Attachment: wi_a1120.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	12-11-2003 14:36									#267
	Tired of ads?

I still appeal to you to reconsider. We have all had difficulties in this game, but we should continue to play. Most importantly, we have been available at agreed time almost every time, which made it easier to play. I think it is pretty rare and difficult to have five people to do that.

This is my first diplogame too and also I think, Ljube's.
So it has seen quite some differences in style of play and style of negotiation between us all.

I would not like to see this game go down in flames. And I certainly do not want to make enemies over the internet

I suggest we blame CapTVK (sacrificial lamb) for not including rules of conduct or war in the FAQ - and continue our game.

	12-11-2003 15:00									#268
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With germanos that is

	12-11-2003 15:05									#269
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion This is my first diplogame too and also I think, Ljube's.

Not quite. Although it's the first one officially called diplo.
I play this type of games with my Belgrade friends regularly.

	18-11-2003 02:34									#270
	Hi! I want to warn that there will start Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

a competing game by Kengel on our playtimes (: Bad done of him!

Propably he will not get many players because most are involved in our game.

We have an interesting game but to be on the sure side I want to inform you that it's not a reason to quit to start in the competing game.

I have told Kengel that it's much better he start his game on thursdays, that had allow all of us that want to play in the game to do it.

I know that I want and deity too! deity can't on tuesdays, it's therefore he not is in this game.