03-12-1999 00:56									#1
	Ancient Scenarios... Suffering from ads?

I was wondering why there aren't so many ancient scenarios. Antiquity was a very interesting and exciting epoch.
I admit that I am also interested in the time after that, until the modern day, but...
I heard many people say they hate ancient scenarios. Why?

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	03-12-1999 04:14									#2
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When they said they hate "ancient" scenairos maybe they meant scenarios made before CiC came out? Otherwise I don't get it becuase the ancient is my third favorite time period , Dark Ages and Middle Ages being my first and second favorites.

I would love to see more ancinet scenarios because I hardly know anything about the really ancient world. I mean like Babylon, Sumatra, Egypt, etc. Everyone knows about Greece and Rome but there have never been good scenarios about ancient China and India.

I fully support ancient scenarios and I wanna see more!

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	03-12-1999 17:36									#3
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I love ancient scenarios, I just can't stop playing End of the Bronze Age!

	04-12-1999 10:50									#4
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I think it's hard to find good source material on these times. More recent history is easier, even obscure conflicts like the Ethiopian one. Books on Egypt, for example, tend not to go into great detail about individual battles and who was in power when.

Still, I love ancient scenarios. I had a lot of fun playing Ataxerxes. I'd love to see more Egypt scenarios, especially if we could get really good terrain tiles in there to show the Nile better (crocodiles, pyramids, temples, oh my!)

	04-12-1999 03:08									#5
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Well, Blackclove, first I will think you will love my next one: Pharaon. I think it will be the first true Fantastic Worlds scenario solely about Egypt!
And, a lot of similarities to Artaxerxes, but a lot of new stuff too... coming really, really, really soon (I hope )!!!!!!

Actually, it's not that hard getting the material. When I began getting interested in ancient Persia, I thought I will never find any reliable sources, so I began collecting scraps from books about Greece and world history, as well as maps. What I have now? 6 excellent books about only Persia, several other books about ancient Greece in which Persia often plays an important role, three history atlases with very good and detailed maps of Persia, and a lot of impressions from Persian art and architecture from the Pergamon Museum (Berlin), the Louvre (Paris) and the British Museum (London) as well as more knowledge I ever dreamed of (at least about Persia ).

"Books on Egypt, for example, tend not to go into great detail about
individual battles and who was in power when."

This is basically because the Egyptians where at first not a very war-like people. They did not describe wars and battles in detail, and this contiunued even after they began conquest. The most famous battle in Egyptian history, the battle of Kadesh about 1290 BC, is known to have been a Chariot battle between Egypt and the Hittites, which preserved the east mediterranean power triangle (Egpyt, Hittites, Mycenae).

But you'll be surprised about how much detail there is known about other ancient peoples: Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Carthaginians...

"Sumatra" Ummm... do you mean Sumatra or Sumeria (in Mesopotamia)

To Temba, Miner, Blackclove: It's great to hear this! I seem not to be THAT alone...

	04-12-1999 09:36									#6
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And try getting info about Persia after the Mongols left. It's like the whole country fell off the map.

	04-12-1999 10:30									#7
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Some sites on the internet about the Ancient world.
http://www.omnibusol.com/ancient.html
http://oznet.net/iran/frames3.htm
http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/P.../PAAI/PAAI.html

the last one has some interesting pictures of Ancient Persia though its from 1970's and in black and white.

	04-12-1999 15:51									#8
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Double Post.
[This message has been edited by Stefan Härtel (edited December 04, 1999).]

	04-12-1999 15:51									#9
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"And try getting info about Persia after the Mongols left. It's like the
whole country fell off the map"

That indeed seems so. Timur conquered Persia about 1400. First evidence of an independent Persia dates from 1530: The Safavid dynasty. WHile the Safavids where busy kicking the Portugese out of the gulf area (Hormuz), they fought against the Ottomans and the Mughals (of Persian origin, BTW).The most notable Persian Shah was Nadir Shah (forget when he reigned). Ismail was also an important ruler, as he conquered Mesopotamia from the Turks.

CivFan: Good links!

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30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

	05-12-1999 02:29									#10
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once i finish my work on WW1979 i am going to complete my long awaited masterpiece: "Age of Augustus"
its a scenario that takes off right after the killing of Julius
first you have to beat Antony
then you have to attempt to reflect the beggining of the Golden Age of Rome

soon i will post a topic about suggestions on some good events -- im not good at events
this could take some time
like 9 months
oh well

	05-12-1999 02:30									#11
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I think Ancient Scenarios get a bad rap for two reasons: 1) There's no air power and 2) people assume that "Ancient" means "Slow Units".

There's not much you can do about air power (short of involving fantasy units), but ancient scenarios can be VERY fast paced. End of the Bronze Age, for one, really cranks up the action. (and thanks for the vote of confidence Miner!).

As for the lack of historical detail about ancient battles, it's not as important as you might think. After all, Civ battles aren't tactical anyway. So long as you can approximate the relative unit strengths, a good campaign scenario is very possible.

	05-12-1999 08:45									#12
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Of course the lack of air power allows for the use of units to simulate impassable terrain.

	05-12-1999 09:26									#13
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Kind of weird. Doing the same thing as prushka. I've created a scenario about the rise of Rome from the campaigns of Caesar to the civil wars between Augustus and Anthony. Also to the end of its golden age/collapse. want to combine the work? Required TOT though.

Civfan....

	05-12-1999 09:30									#14
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Stefan: thanks.....

I found those links several months back......

heres some more.
http://www.friesian.com/iran.htm#parthian
http://www.fivepointstech.com/parth...hia_history.htm
http://www.ancientsites.com/xi/indexes/firstPage.rage

	12-12-1999 10:45									#15
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This is going to sound like heresy or whatever to some, but...

I've been thinking about doing a scenario based on Palestine at the time of Jesus Christ. The Christians would start out with one city (either Bethlehem or Nazareth, I haven't decided... there may be a better choice, as I'm not super-familiar with the New Testament) and the other nations would be the Romans (in control of almost everything) and the Persians (Or whatever the nation to the east was at the time... possibly still Mesopotamians?). There could also be four smaller nations if appropriate... possibly Arabs, Syrians or Egyptians? (I'm really not that familiar with the political geography of the time nor with what the Romans had actually conquered at this point.)

The Christians would start out with 12 Disciple units (Diplomats) and 30000 Faith (gold). They would be returned to 30000 faith every turn by the events file. Also, the Diplomat would be moved to a special tech called "Christianity", and the command "Subvert city" would be edited to "Convert city."

The Romans would have Legions (of course) and other heavy but slow units, and their key cities would be connected by roads.

Anyhow, it's an idea I had... it may have been done already, but maybe not... if anyone wants to give it a try, go ahead. I look forward to playing it... as the Romans...

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	13-12-1999 12:48									#16
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(Bumping up this thread).

Stefan, MrT, Blackclove and all those who love ancient scenarios: I have been helping someone with a scenario about the Western Med just after Kull's Ancient Empires ends. I don't think it's gonna be finished before Christmas, but from what I've seen so far, I believe that even the 'extremely harsh critics' like William Keenan will like it!