15-08-2003 03:36									#1
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It east's Iron!

Iron-eating bug found to thrive in 121C heat
By Steve Connor Science Editor
15 August 2003
If microbes could scoff, this one would certainly laugh at the people who complained about the searing temperatures last week, which reached a record 38.1C (100.6F) in Gravesend, Kent.
The microbe in question has been found to thrive at 121C (249.8F) - some 8 degrees Celsius higher than the previous recorded maximum temperature that a living organism could survive.
The newly discovered micro-organism does not yet have a scientific name but its finders call it "Strain 121". The researchers, Kazem Kashefi and Derek Lovley from the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, found the tiny creature in a deep-sea volcanic vent on the bed of the Pacific Ocean, where temperatures reach 400C.
They put Strain 121 in a hot oven to find that it enjoyed the experience - colonies continued to double in size at 121C.
Dr Lovley, whose study is published today in the journal Science, said Strain 121, which eats iron, might give an insight into the conditions that led to the evolution of the first lifeforms more than 3.5 billion years ago.


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I am sure many of you have seen this, but I just thought it was strange... what does it have to do with evolution though?

	15-08-2003 03:46									#2
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A Marvel Comics character?

	15-08-2003 05:09									#3
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A variant of the strange orange creatures growing with thousands of other strange orange creatures near the mid-Atlantic ridge, gaining their energy from the thermal vents rather than the sun?

	15-08-2003 05:12									#4
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What's the source -- The Sun, or the National Enquirer?

	15-08-2003 05:25									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I am sure many of you have seen this, but I just thought it was strange... what does it have to do with evolution though?

That just adds to the list.

So far, besides boring Oxygen and CO₂ organotrophic critters, we have ecosystems with lots of methane-eating organotrophs, and ecosystems of lithotrophic critters whose metabolism involves:

Ammonia
Hydrogen Sulfide
Sulfur Dioxide
Iron (cold, aerobic)
Iron (cold, anaerobic)
Iron (hot and presumably aerobic)

The only thing they have in common is the basic organic chemistry at the molecular level (DNA for those that have it, and RNA).

One thing it shows is that life will occur from organic molecular components pretty much anywhere there's active chemistry.

Another issue is that those vent conditions are much more similar to primordial earth conditions than more typical ocean regions, let alone land.

	15-08-2003 05:36									#6
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Damnable nucleic acids. What's the crustimony proseedcake to determine genetic similarity?

	15-08-2003 06:40									#7
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GO ARCHAEBACTERIA!!!

	15-08-2003 07:05									#8
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I am just thinking that our stupid biologist (no offense) only hypothosize (speeling? me drunK) that life would exist on what E-class? planets (what is that class), yet we are finding strange a$$ oragnisms here on earth that survive at temperatures and on substances we never thought possible... Maybe they should rethink some things...

me happy

	15-08-2003 08:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I am just thinking that our stupid biologist (no offense) only hypothosize (speeling? me drunK) that life would exist on what E-class? planets (what is that class), yet we are finding strange a$$ oragnisms here on earth that survive at temperatures and on substances we never thought possible... Maybe they should rethink some things... me happy

They are rethinking some things. Microbes are now thought to be very common in the universe. heat-loving Archaea are thought to resemble some of the earths first organisims 3.9 billion years ago. Some Exobiologists now suspect that procaryotic organisms may be widespread IN the icy moons of the outer solar system, living in subterranian oceans like on Europa. Even PLUTO might have a subterranian ocean!

	15-08-2003 08:23									#10
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But could multicellular life evolve from some of these exotic critters? The energy demands are much different.

	15-08-2003 08:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove But could multicellular life evolve from some of these exotic critters? The energy demands are much different.

Nope. Multicellular life can only evolve on an earth-like planet because earths have plenty of sunlight for photosythesis that Europas do not have. That photsynthesis must also be able to release oxygen as a waste product. the oxygen content must reach at least 5% of the leven on earth today for multicelularity. One earth this occured about a billion tears aho when animals, plants (read and green algae), true fungi, and chromophytes (brown seaweeds and unicelular relatives) evolved from primitive protozoans acording to DNA data (although animals with hard parts did not apear until 550 million years ago).

	15-08-2003 08:44									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove But could multicellular life evolve from some of these exotic critters? The energy demands are much different.

They don't necessarily need to be multicellular - Caulerpa is an example of a complex single cell plant.

Anaerobic multicellular organotrophs exist on earth without significant levels of free oxygen - in fact, the hydrogen sulfide metabolizers are poisoned by oxygen, and include primitive worms and spider like creatures. They're apparently adaptations of normal oxygen metabolizers to a very slowly and progressively H₂S rich and oxygen poor environment.

	15-08-2003 20:41									#13
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quote: Nope. Multicellular life can only evolve on an earth-like planet because earths have plenty of sunlight for photosythesis that Europas do not have. That photsynthesis must also be able to release oxygen as a waste product. the oxygen content must reach at least 5% of the leven on earth today for multicelularity. One earth this occured about a billion tears aho when animals, plants (read and green algae), true fungi, and chromophytes (brown seaweeds and unicelular relatives) evolved from primitive protozoans acording to DNA data (although animals with hard parts did not apear until 550 million years ago).

That's what they need to rethink... Why can't it be possible that intelligent life exists that does not fit these requirements?

	16-08-2003 02:10									#14
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That explains my penchant for popping iron pills.

	16-08-2003 02:53									#15
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I still no idea what holds that little POS together at 121.

	16-08-2003 02:57									#16
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If it becomes a multicellular life form

	16-08-2003 03:00									#17
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This is old news my friend. In my geology classes I learned about a whole order of microbes which live off of sulfur. If I remember correctly they get their energy by doing oxidation reduction reactions on the sulfur compounds.

A bunch of these critters live in caves and deep sea thermal vents.

	16-08-2003 03:02									#18
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The new news is that they can live at higher temperatures than initially thought... Besides, it's new to me

What if there are things living in stars? that would be kewl:b

	16-08-2003 03:03									#19
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me thinks that's a tad too hot.

	16-08-2003 03:04									#20
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They once thought 121 was a tad too hot too...

	16-08-2003 03:08									#21
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since the temp in stars is ~3x10^6, I don't think that 'tad' is the right word here.

	16-08-2003 04:23									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Japher That's what they need to rethink... Why can't it be possible that intelligent life exists that does not fit these requirements?

The reasons are quite complicated but is has to do with the abundance of oxygen compared to other oxidizing elements such as sulfur. The first photosythesizers used hydrogen sulfide (H2S) instead of water and released sulfur instead of oxygen. H2S is rare while H2O is everywhere. So when Cyanobacteria evolvd and started pumping oxygen into the air there became much more oxygen than sulfur. There is no reason to belive that sulfur is more abundant that oxygen on a planet.

Oerdin, these critters Have been known for a while, but this fella is the most heat resistant ever found, beating the former record holder Pyrolobus

The reason the critters can stand such high temeratures is that the extreme pressure raises the boiling point and the Archaea, the group to which these critters belong to has unique proteins and cell membrane lipids (fats) and Cholesterol, which also helps strengthen the membrane. Before these guys were discovered it was thought that only organisms with nucleated cells had Steroids, such as like cholesterol.

	16-08-2003 05:21									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat They're apparently adaptations of normal oxygen metabolizers to a very slowly and progressively H2S rich and oxygen poor environment.

I'd sure hate being such an organism. I couldn't stand living in farts.

	16-08-2003 05:33									#24
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Farts are methane, and there's whole communities of those in the Gulf of Mexico. They're interesting in a different way, because the methane metabolizing gas vent ecosystem gives way to a conventional ocean ecosystem, with one set of regular creatures that feeds off the methane critters.

H₂S is the really nasty stuff you get from rotten eggs, and it's lethal in fairly small doses. That ecosystem is isolated, and it's rather interesting, in that it's an atmosphere that would kill us, but they'd die (even in the water) exposed to an atmosphere that has as much Oxygen as ours does.

	16-08-2003 05:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel since the temp in stars is ~3x10^6, I don't think that 'tad' is the right word here.

However, with glycine and aminonitriles being identified in interstellar dust clouds, it IS possible that primitive life would evolve in space, as well, using the relatively dense dust clouds for both a nutrient source and a radiation shield/converter for energy.

	16-08-2003 06:00									#26
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^^^Thus giving a wee bit of plausibility to the theory that life may have been seeded on Earth by dust-bearing comets and by "cosmic rain" (i.e. detrius surviving re-entry and striking the planet's surface, scattering everywhere).

Gatekeeper

	16-08-2003 07:29									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat However, with glycine and aminonitriles being identified in interstellar dust clouds, it IS possible that primitive life would evolve in space, as well, using the relatively dense dust clouds for both a nutrient source and a radiation shield/converter for energy.

Doubt it, you need a liquid medium that is a universal solvent, water, for life. The molecular clouds are not actually that thick, they would be considered a vacuum on earth, even dense ones. Life needs three things; LIQUID water, energy, and probably always carbon.

MtG, how do you get the subscripts for H2S?