15-08-2003 20:07									#31
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I see. On the other hand a small rain can flood Athens whereas in Belgium everything is business as usual even in a -10C snowfall.

	15-08-2003 20:16									#32
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Doesn't get that cold here often , but yes that's the idea

	15-08-2003 20:21									#33
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The first time I arrived at Belgium at 10 years old, the temperature was at -17C. The worse winter in the country for decades from what I was told.

I remember it quite vividly. I was the blue icestick standing in the bus station

	15-08-2003 20:23									#34
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I think it is sad that so many French people are dying... why is it only in France? isnt the heat wave affecting other countries?

Anyway, what should be done about it?

	15-08-2003 20:31									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I think it is sad that so many French people are dying... why is it only in France? isnt the heat wave affecting other countries? Anyway, what should be done about it?

I suppose the heat wave has been even worse in France than in other countries, and the French government has just released the figures, which explains why it is under the spotlight of this article.

Paiktis:
This Greek idea is good. I am not aware if it has been done or not in France. In any ways, I think I'll e-mail the idea to the ministry.

	15-08-2003 20:33									#36
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maybe the French just don't know how to count, or are blowing the numbers up just to get some sympathy... would be a nice change from getting bashed

if only I had my Star Destroyer to have hover over Paris and give them some shade...

	16-08-2003 00:59									#37
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quote: Let's all ignore it and it will all go away...

what, europe or the heatwave?

	16-08-2003 01:12									#38
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro [q]And fans and air conditions are evil, because they use more energy,

LOLOLOLROTF. Not if the energy comes from a great clean source... like nuke plants.

	16-08-2003 01:16									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Asher 34C again today here.

We have had several 40*C days in San this summer (Like most summers) it is not a problem here.

	16-08-2003 01:17									#40
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It's Bush's fault!!!

quote: I heard that parts of central Europe is predicted to become a desert within 60 years unless we start doing something about it soon.

Predicted by whom? I'm compiling a list of nutcase activists and need their name. Take a look at temp graphs put out by paleo-climatologists and you'll see just how moderate historical temps have been. I'd be worried about the next ice advance and what triggers them...

	16-08-2003 01:25									#41
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quote: I'd be worried about the next ice advance and what triggers them...

It's possible that all the fuel burning and deforestation IS the trigger.

	16-08-2003 01:51									#42
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I'd be worried about the next ice advance and what triggers them...

Why? In case of an ice age, we can always dump loads of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Global warming is much harder to deal with.

	16-08-2003 02:09									#43
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quote: Why? In case of an ice age, we can always dump loads of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Global warming is much harder to deal with.

It is my understanding that global warming can cause an ice age, and dumping greenhouse gases probably wouldn't help.

Global Warming -> melt ice caps -> alter trade wind, floods -> if the winds decide to move from polar regions south/north it could refrease the water where it wasn't before -> ice age

	16-08-2003 03:01									#44
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 The first time I arrived at Belgium at 10 years old, the temperature was at -17C. The worse winter in the country for decades from what I was told. I remember it quite vividly. I was the blue icestick standing in the bus station

Wimp!
-17C is a rather typical winter temperature where I live (northern Sweden). Actually, I prefer when it gets below -30C. There's virtually no people or traffic on the streets when it's this cold so it's really nice to go out for a walk, just remember to wear warm clothes
Also, it's always very entertaining to see how my Chinese friends suffer during the coldest winter weeks

	16-08-2003 03:18									#45
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo I'd be worried about the next ice advance and what triggers them... Why? In case of an ice age, we can always dump loads of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Global warming is much harder to deal with.

Actually... An increase in global temperatures is likely to result in a new global iceage as increased evaporation slightly changes the ocean's salinity causing ocean currents to change to a more east-west orientation instead of the tropics to the polls style currents we have now.

Supposedly, as the salinity increases the density of the surface water increases and the ocean currents dive deeper instead of staying mostly on the surface as they currently do. This means less heat energy will make it to the extreme north or south thus resulting in a cooling trend. This is what is thought to have caused the mini-ice age after the midevial warm period.

	16-08-2003 03:27									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Wimp! -17C is a rather typical winter temperature where I live (northern Sweden). Actually, I prefer when it gets below -30C. There's virtually no people or traffic on the streets when it's this cold so it's really nice to go out for a walk, just remember to wear warm clothes Also, it's always very entertaining to see how my Chinese friends suffer during the coldest winter weeks

Yes, I suppose it's all a matter of perspective isn't it?

I didn't have such a hard time adapting to Brussels' weather in the long term. But the initial week I must have been the walking blue human icestick My favorite candy was Vicks throat caramels

	16-08-2003 03:35									#47
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Yes, I suppose it's all a matter of perspective isn't it?

Absolutely! As I said, my Chinese friends usually suffer badly during the winter of northern Sweden, but they also had lots of fun this summer when they heard of my intense agony during my vacation, when the temperature was stuck at standard Chinese temperature (28+C) for weeks

	16-08-2003 03:39									#48
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I admit I shiver to think a -30C for a long time. It sounds very, very cold! Luckily Belgium's weather was much more mild in comparison to Nothern Sweden, and colder in comparison to Greece But I quickly became accustomed to it. The first week though was the "assesment week" (will my fingers fall off? No? oh Ok then ) The next winters were much more mild too. It was this one that was particularly cold. But I suppose at 10 years of age you can adjust more easily too. After a while it was "normal".

	16-08-2003 03:41									#49
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Forcast for San Diego today is 25 degrees C with clear skies. There is no place like southern California.

To bad I'm in northern California.

	16-08-2003 03:48									#50
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I'm wondering, is it that 3000 deaths have been clearly attributed to the heat wave, or is it that 3000 people have died in France during this period?

	16-08-2003 03:49									#51
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It is currently just above 30C here, even when it cools down a bit at night, I can't sleep because of the heat. I woke up at 8am today (in spite of jet lag and going to bed late because of that). I hate heat.

	16-08-2003 03:59									#52
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30 degrees C is close to 90 degrees F isn't it? That's not all that warm really.

	16-08-2003 04:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I'm wondering, is it that 3000 deaths have been clearly attributed to the heat wave, or is it that 3000 people have died in France during this period?

According to Libération, 19000 people have died in France since July 25, and there were only 16000 during the same period last year.
I'd assume a fraction of this variation comes from the demographic evolution, but I suppose the huge majority of this variation comes from the heat.

	16-08-2003 04:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin 30 degrees C is close to 90 degrees F isn't it? That's not all that warm really.

As Paiktis said: it's a matter of perspective. Imagine -30F. Then you may get an idea of how much we enjoy >90F over here

	16-08-2003 04:04									#55
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It is difficult to estimate with complete accuracy the deaths from heat. For example: an old person comes to the hospital with respiratory problems. After a while the doctors were unable to save him and he expires.

Were the respiratory complications that made him go to the hospital and eventually killed him a result of heat or not? (assuming he/she had a history of respiratory or heart problems). Difficult to say with certainty, I'd think.

	16-08-2003 04:06									#56
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BTW, it seems other countries suffer from much fewer death despite having a similar heatwave. Italy seems to be the second most affected country, with 'only' 80 dead. I wonder why France has been so much affected in comparison with others. I suppose there will be plenty of theories in the press in the next few days...

	16-08-2003 11:54									#57
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I would never make a joke that my city is much, much hotter. I wouldn't make jokes about thousands of people dying like that. Plus my city has Air conditioning.

If my city ever had a power outage like in New York city in the summer we would easily have thousands of people dying due to our large population of old people.

	16-08-2003 11:56									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola We have had several 40*C days in San this summer (Like most summers) it is not a problem here.

Well unlike Texas, almost no one has AC here.

	16-08-2003 12:40									#59
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quote: Actually... An increase in global temperatures is likely to result in a new global iceage as increased evaporation slightly changes the ocean's salinity causing ocean currents to change to a more east-west orientation instead of the tropics to the polls style currents we have now. Supposedly, as the salinity increases the density of the surface water increases and the ocean currents dive deeper instead of staying mostly on the surface as they currently do. This means less heat energy will make it to the extreme north or south thus resulting in a cooling trend. This is what is thought to have caused the mini-ice age after the midevial warm period.

There has to be some mechanism in place since temps were higher during past inter-glacials when the only "greenhouse" gases being emitted by humans came from the orifices of Neandertals.

About a 1,000 years after the last ice advance ended, it is believed Lake Agassiz, a large glacial lake that surpassed even the Great Lakes in volume located just to the NW of Lake Superior broke through a retreating glacial dam flooding down the St Lawrence into the Atlantic. The result was a flood of fresh water right into the Atlantic conveyor belt, the Sargasso Sea and the warmer and saltier current heading for England, shutting it down and plunging NE America and Western Europe back into the ice age for another 1,000 years.

There's also evidence from Western Europe of an ice advance starting up in as little as 20 years. This was detected from pollen in France in layers ~115,000 years old. Evidence of extensive volcanic activity is lacking, so something caused an ice advance in a very short amount of time.

	17-08-2003 10:09									#60
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Spiffor, did France have any cooling centers set up? They are large, air conditioned rooms where the elderly and others endangered by the heat can go to sit or sleep. All the cities here set them up (renting theaters, shcool gyms, or similar) when a large swath of hot weather is expected.

Las Vegas and similar cities probably have dedicated facilities.