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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
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Sorry, but WE control the government. Sure, it's one entity, but an entity controlled and representative of the people. |
And I don't like being subject to a tyranny of the majority... I'm sure many don't.
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Because Democracy = Accountability. Corporations = no accountability. Capitalism gives consumers limited opprotunity to hold business accountable. By not buying products or services. But when you take away that option (by having an essential service in private hands) that company has no accountability whatsoever. |
What BS. Essential service in private hands results in no accountability? Food production is an essential service, and last I checked it was in private hands. Companies have accountability because if they don't do a good job, they get canned by someone that CAN do it better. What does a government agency have? Sure the guy at the top wants to keep his job, but the people in the middle ain't in any trouble. They'll keep their jobs no matter how much they **** up (and you have to work in government to really appreciate this).
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And deregulation won't do this. Unless you want 10 different sets of power lines running to your house. |
Do you deliberately not read, so you can make dumb points? WHO IS TALKING ABOUT LOCAL DEREGULATION?! We are talking about energy PRODUCTION! This does not in any way, shape, or form require more than 1 power line to your house.
If they don't do a good job, the town can merely turn to another power generator to supply energy.
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I'm sorry you don't have faith in America, Imran. |
I'm sorry... YOU don't have faith in America. I think Americans CAN have efficient private services  .
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
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Sava - quote:
Do you have any facts to support your assertion that environmentalists caused the Energy Crisis? |
Hell Sava, you just posted one fact, Houston Natural Gas. I keep asking you why California had to go outside the state and deal with Enron but my question and the obvious answer isn't sinking in. California wasn't keeping pace with growing energy demands and we know why that happened - "environmentalists" successfully shut down Califormia's nuclear industry and scream bloody murder anytime offshore drilling is proposed.
You didn't answer my question.
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So laws against murder cause murders? Laws against theft create theft? Sorry Berzerker, that bird doesn't fly. |
Those laws don't create massive black markets, the massive black market in drugs created by prohibition creates more crime than would exist if drugs were legal just as was the case with alcohol prohibition. Nice analogy there, Sava.
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Can you name some of the energy regulations that you want erased from legislation? Name the regulations, explain what they do, and we can debate them individually. My gut tells me you don't have a clue about what the regulations actually regulate. |
I want them all erased, I could care less what names politicians gave them. Now, I do know what one regulation did - it eliminated the construction of new nuclear plants in California.
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The regional grids were created BY deregulation Berz... |
Show us the actual regulation that was eliminated to create these regional grids. 
Odin - quote:
That proves what I thought, Berz is pulling crap out of his ass. |
I said the regional grids were created by government regulation and Sava says they were created by "de-regulation", i.e., the elimination of a regulation. Wanna bet which of us is right? How about this, the loser starts a thread titled "Odin is a gullible sap"?
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
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Sava - quote:
I'm sorry Berz, but if all government regulations were erased, it would be the early 20th century all over again. Perhaps you need to learn more about that era before you criticize the regulations that were created because of the abuses. Unless of course you believe corporate America can be trusted... |
Allowing the marketplace to determine who provides energy and at what cost is not the same as "trusting" corporate America to do anything. If anyone, including a corporation, doesn't honor it's contract, they get sued. I'm still waiting for you to identify the specific regulation that was eliminated to create these regional grids.
Odin - quote:
I don't know why my fellow tree huggers are worried about another Cheyrnoble or 3-mile island. They will happen MORE often when not regulated becuase of cost-cutting. |
That's funny, Chernobyl occured in a communist country and 3-Mile Island, a regulated plant, emitted so little radiation that there still is no evidence of harm to the neighboring communities. You have no idea how much is wasted on some of these regulations, I do. Just replacing a friggin light bulb takes 3 or 4 people each assigned a specific task because of regulations, which reminds me of the question: how many nuclear plant workers following government regulations does it take to screw in a light bulb? Answer: ask the local union.
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mrmitchell
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I'm going to go ahead and give my 2 cents without reading the thread.
Power production decentralisation.
You see, power plants have reached the top end of the line. They're really stuck, centralised power plants can only pump out more power by getting bigger. The largest coal-burning furnaces are about 13 stories high. Nuclear power, often trumpeted as a "solution", produces increased terrorist threat, increased chance of major catastrophe, AND thousands of barrels of glowing sludge that will remain carcinogenic for up to 10,000 years. There is no foreseeable breakthrough in these technologies that will increase their production without increasing their sheer cost.
Solar power plants are expensive and unmaintanable for right now, but they are constantly getting better. Solar panels today can kick five-year-old panel's asses. You can't say the same thing about a coal burner or a nuclear rod. Supposing we actually gave solar research decent funding, centralised solar plants would be a reality in 5 years.
But they'd eventually bump into the same problem. Every technology meets its limit SOMEWHERE. Thus, the better thing to do is to change the system.
On television there were some electricity experts babbling on about how our lines are outdated, and we need more higher voltage ones. This is not changing the system, this is fixing it. In five to twenty years, we'll be having massive blackouts like this one, regardless of how many high-voltage lines we put up.
Thus, what we need to do is change the system. The most likely change as of now (aside from living in caves) is the idea of decentralised power production. Every building outfitted with solar panels and/or hydrogen-electricity generators or whatever the future brings us. This helps the building produce its own power. If the building uses more power than it produces, it's still hooked up to a central grid so it can buy power off of plants and/or other buildings. If the building produces more power than it uses, it's still hooked up to a central grid so it can sell power back to the utility.
Within a decade, given proper funding, solar panels and other super-future production methods will probably be able to support the load for a house and more, and be cheaper. The secondary bottleneck in this concern (and important for if we go the change or fix route) is, indeed, the distribution system.
Power lines suck. Most of them in the United States are cheap, old wires that can barely transmit load. They can and do lose power during travel, and lots of electricitiy is wasted moving from a new 60bagillionwatts plant to a line that can hold maybe a few kilos. (Hyperbole is the king of convincing, mind you.)
Also, those goddamned birds need to quit using power poles and lines to sit and build nests.  
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mrmitchell
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Utilities lobbies are already powerful. They could crush any antitrust law they wanted to, probably.
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16-08-2003 04:36
I don't know why my fellow tree huggers are worried about another Cheyrnoble or 3-mile island. They will happen MORE often when not regulated becuase of cost-cutting. 
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