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DRoseDARs
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"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:30
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3 were posted at 01:07:36am
1 was posted at 01:07:37am
Last one posted at 01:10:52am
I nominate this thread as the one that is spared. (Not a copycat thread, just funky server behaviour.)
To legitimize this one, here are the on-topic posts made in the other bastard duplicate threads:
quote:
Spiffor wrote:
Space monarchy could be possible, but would require several things:
- a ruler who has a high charisma or a high traditional legitimacy (looooong bloodline). His function would be to unite a probably loose confederation behind him. A united democracy would be likely to fight too many secessionist wars, whereas a king could avoid them, if he's recognized as a perfectly legitimate ruler by the population.
- dysfunctionments in a former space democracy (internal wars, safety issues), which will make the people glad to see a stable and firm monarchic power rise to power.
- either a good communication / transportation system should exist, or a wide autonomy should be given to planteray viceroys. In this case, the monarch would have to be wise enough not to demand too much to the individual planets.
- Of course, for any united political entity to exist, there must be a common enemy the people think they have to fight together. |
quote:
Worthingtons wrote:
As Technology advances it becomes more posisble to control and oppress your people. As Capitalism develops specialisation on job basis becomes more possible.
So it's feasable that the American system could advance to such a point where it reverses, and by the space age we end up with a feudal system. |
quote:
Azazel wrote:
Hardly so.
But it's great that you've mentioned FTL travel, because without it, and with long range space ships looking how they look by visionaries ( not SciFi writers ) today, a new society will probably spring on long voyages on mammoth spaceships. Cryo chambers will fill most of the traveling time, if they'll be created ( And I think they will, with some 85% certainty. I still remember that fricking unfreezing frog. ), but still, months or years on agregate of space travel with a group of a couple of thousands of people secluded from the rest of humanity can create some mighty amazing results. |
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Worthingtons
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Pride Park,Derby
Jan 2002
time: 05:30
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Why is this one so special, i mean it's only on 3 posts?
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VetLegion
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How much executive power are we talking about?
Certainly there would have to be some sort of meritocracy designed not to make the best and brightest the enemies of the regime but to instead integrate them into regime: Merit Lordships and such.
Space monarchy in the universe of Miles Vorkosigan does not sound unconvincing but social and political backgound are not explained in much detail so it is diffucult to say how plausible the thing is.
The Dune type monarchy is more unplausible to me, but not completely improbable.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
I think that one of the reasons why feudal empires show up in space operas is because it is a handy device for an author who needs a few movers and shakers in their novel, a person who can say "do this" and this is done. Kingships fit the need rather nicely, unlike messy Democracies where people have to build coalitions and such.
I do think, however, that to build up an interstellar system of government, each of the individual planets would almost have to have a planetary government of some sort to send representatives to this Congress. Depending upon any interstellar Constitutions, it could very well be possible that some of the planets could develop into monarchies. |
I certaily agree with the first paragraph. As for the second, I myself find it difficult to think how a space colony would turn out to be a feudal monarchyunless setting such a thing up was one of the aims of the colonists: after all, people would be coming from a place were popular politics would be common, and one would assume they would carry with them the institutions of their home along, and feudal monarchy would not be among them.
There is somehting else though, becuase another way to have a story were a few people can make all the decisions is a despotic government, or an absolute one (this differs in that while a single individual holds executive power and more, there is no such thing as an aristocracy, and power is not necessarily passed along by blood): but writers want a form of government seen as legitimate (notice how there are always good loyal subjects and servants) and a despotic system (which is certainly possible in the days of mass politics) makes such characters hard to believe, at least for the democratic mind.
interesting question: did SciFi writers of the communist block have such a "beneign" view of space monarchs? Most western scifi writers I have read have had some form of space monarch in one story or another, but the only communist block writer I ever read, Lem, has no space kings.
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Proteus_MST
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In the Battletech-Universe everything semed to happen step by step, within 400 years.
First Terra colonized Worlds many Lightyears away by means of Specialized Jumpships and FTL-Drives which could Travel up to 30 Lightyears with one jump .
The Cores of FTL-Drives had to be reloaded after every jump by means of a very fragile Jump Sail, which meant that the Ships had to stay within a certain Distance of the Star, so the Sail wouldnīt be torn apart by the gravitational Forces and the Solar Wind, normally they chose a point in the Zenith or Nadir or the Solar System.
So the Jump Ships had to employ large Dropships, which attached to the Jump Ships, where transported by the Jump Ship to the System and then traveled within days or Weeks from the Jump Ship to the Planet and back again.
Because Reloading the Jump Ship Drivecores took a long time and also the Dropships had a long time to travel within the System, Contact to Earth became more and more sparse, especially among Colonies which were more than 30 lys distant from earth and therefore could only reched if the Jumpship made two or more jumps and reloaded its Drivecore once or more times in Systems which lay in between.
Often those Colonies developed more close ties to their respectiver Neighbours than to Terra and formed Aliances with them.
The Colonies also developed independent Power Structures, some by means of Elections, others just by making those people Leaders, who were military Leaders in the War for Independence, or had the most Influence or money on the Planet.
As more and more Colonies became settled and the Control of Terra over most Colonies more and more diminished finally many Colonies struggled for Independence, which lead to the first great War between Terra and the Colonies.
Terran Forces were to few and the Distances to big and so after some months of War Terra decided to keep Control of Colonies one Jump away (i.e. a Radius of 30 Lys) and completely shut off the Contact to all other Colonies which were more distant, even to those which were dependent on Terra, for example because they had no Water Supplies or the like and therefore didnīt like to become independent.
Afterwards the Bonds between the Worlds in the Alliances strneghtened, often larger Alliances were created by smaller Alliances uniting and Society slowly developed into a Feudal System.
Formerly elected Leaderpositions in the Alliances became Hereditary and finally a new Nobility was created. And, as later with the Hyperpulse Generator (HPG) a Form of FTL-Communication was developed, those Leaders were better able to govern those far distant Colonies than Terra had been in the distant past.
I can only guess, how realistic these Scenarios in Bettletech are. I think Colonies becoming independent from Earth and deceloping their own form of Government will be a very realistic Scenario, so I could imagine, that some Planets could also develope some kind of Feudal System at least on a planetary scale could be created, where those who possess Money or certain important ressources gain Power and control the Planet via a network of minions which are oblieged to this Planetary Leader and control for Example a City or a Continent.
But on an insterstellar Scale?
Dunno, I think it depends on which Dangers Humankind faces in Interstellar Space. If there is some kind of external Pressure, for example Colonies waging War against each other, or interstellar Piracy, I could imagine that it could lead to Colonies forming Alliances, which could eventually lead to some kind of interstellar Feudal System.
But I donīt think it is too realistic. After all I can imagine some kind of Feudal Structure evolving in small Colonies, but larger Feudal Systems, encompassing a whole Planet or even several Planets in different Star Systems IMHO arenīt very likely to appear.
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Proteus_MST
Nice summary. I agree that on a very small, internal scale, some form of neo-feudalism might be possible, though I say neo becuase it's foundation would have to be different than in the past: I do;t know if being able to porvide troops would be the basis for aristocracy in a space age. |
Battletech builds around just this, i.e. the Nobility providing Troops.
As Battlemechs (Giant Humanoid Fighting Machines in the Battletech Universe, the Mightiest Weapon on the Battlefield) are very Expensive, those who possess their own Battlemech have good Chances to become Knights and maybe rise further in the Rank of Nobility and very often titles of Nobility (which often go along which some Acres of Real Estate on some Planet or even a whole Planet) are provided to Commanders of Regiments of Battlemechs who have proven to be especially faithful Servants to their Leaders.
As for Spacekings in Reality:
Nope, I also donīt think that this System of Neo-Feudalism might be centered primarily around military Matters.
Rather around those new Barons, Dukes and the like being trusthworthy and good managers to the Estates provided by them and of course being able to give their Leader the Tribute in Money and Raw Materials, he demands.
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Jon Miller
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I thought I ahd a post in this therad
Joj M Iller
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17-08-2003 13:07
?
Smiley 
Yes, the whole thing is absurd. 
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