19-08-2003 20:49									#31
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory im not a spammer in the true sense. I use netsend to spam. and ive already defended myself on this before. I totally tell recievers how to block netsends. I dont clog your boxes with email (as you like to claim/exagerate ) I defend it because its a legitamate form of advertising. And the only reason your against it, is because the BIG guys have told you to be against it. Spam is a threat to there money-making. One guy and a program can now reach millions for free, instead of paying millions to reach maybe 100 people on TV or Radio.

I'm going to ask Slowwhand to make a good ol' fashioned Texas noose . . . . .

	19-08-2003 21:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory "Someone else is paying for the processing power and the bandwidth used to send it. " Bullshit. If John Q doesnt have to pay to send emails to his girlfriend, why should Joehasaproduct2sell?

Because I don't bloody want to receive spams, therefore I should not be forced to pay fot them.

Do you want me to send you several hundread MB worth of stuff to blow up your inbox?

	19-08-2003 21:09									#33
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quote: Originally posted by elijah I think the law should turn a blind eye to those that decide to "retaliate". Hack into a spammers computer or network, and fdisk them back to the 70's.

That's what I feel like sometimes, but I have so far been successful in reining in my urge to strike back.

The best way to do is to block all the open relays after a grace period of, say, one month, and black hole all other known spam servers.

	19-08-2003 21:10									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel because joehasproducts2sell is a f@$#ing spammer, and should be tarred, feathered, and hanged.

Only ? I think they should be quartered before hanged. You pinko tree-hugeer humanitarian wuss !

	19-08-2003 22:37									#35
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Allowing retaliation is probably the best idea. We need to get spammers to piss off Al Qaeda. Once a couple of spammer's houses mysteriously explode into fireballs, the remaining ones ought to get scared.

	20-08-2003 05:35									#36
	Suffering from ads?

quote: That's what I feel like sometimes, but I have so far been successful in reining in my urge to strike back.

I havent

Spiffor, you drag them behind a horse drawn carriage in the streets of london, then you hang them, cut them down when still alive and conscious, cut off their genitals, and rip out bowels/intestines and burn them in front of them, and then cut them into four pieces, sticking their head on a pike.

Know you nothing of torture?

Smiley:

	20-08-2003 05:43									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Smiley Allowing retaliation is probably the best idea. We need to get spammers to piss off Al Qaeda. Once a couple of spammer's houses mysteriously explode into fireballs, the remaining ones ought to get scared.

Yeah. The enemy of my enemy is my friend

You know, forget the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, we need a War on Spam!

	20-08-2003 07:32									#38
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Spiffor, you drag them behind a horse drawn carriage in the streets of london, then you hang them, cut them down when still alive and conscious, cut off their genitals, and rip out bowels/intestines and burn them in front of them, and then cut them into four pieces, sticking their head on a pike. Know you nothing of torture?

Are you in the wrong century?

	20-08-2003 07:45									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Boris, my plan would be to set up a sting operation.

What does this mean? How would you do this without doing an unconstitutional invasion of privacy? Surely you're not advocating entrapment?

	20-08-2003 08:02									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

New Law:

All spammers and people whom buy their products must have htier genetalia removed without the use of any anti-pain medications or tranquilizers.
Except me, of course.

	20-08-2003 08:04									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What does this mean? How would you do this without doing an unconstitutional invasion of privacy? Surely you're not advocating entrapment?

Quick off-off-topic question:

What exactly is entrapment?

	20-08-2003 08:15									#42
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It's when a law enforcement officer induces or persuades someone to commit a crime they would not ordinarily have commited.

	20-08-2003 10:14									#43
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That's hard to show.

	20-08-2003 10:20									#44
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Why don't we instead round up all the people who buy unsolicited products, merge them with the people who buy that crap off infomercials and gather them in the town square for public humiliation...

You could charge admission and extra to hit them in the face with pies... but just pointing and laughing is free.

I think it would be big!

	21-08-2003 06:51									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Because I don't bloody want to receive spams, therefore I should not be forced to pay fot them.

Then, there are these things called filters and a good ISP I have one, perhaps you should too. Rarely do I get it. And when I do, theres this 'delete' button that comes in handy :P

quote: Do you want me to send you several hundread MB worth of stuff to blow up your inbox?

Go for it. But see above

"because joehasproducts2sell is a f@$#ing spammer, and should be tarred, feathered, and hanged."

These this is what saddens me. The enormous amount of threat used when discussing this topic. Same old, Same old. Ya'll are a bunch of whores. Just a bit of common sense and 10 minutes of download time would prevent you from getting any spam.

Its all a mute point. Spam will never be illegal or it will never be stopped in the general sense. So stop wasting your time talking about it.

I make 100$ a month off spamming . Thats 50 more than a couple months ago.

	21-08-2003 07:02									#46
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Well, you raise a good point, the punishment ought to fit the crime. Therefore, ers should be forced to do the following:

Use a penis shrinking kit.
Transfer their profits to shady Nigerian bank accounts.
Get followed 24/7 by a live webcam.
Accept loans with a 200% annual interest rate.

	21-08-2003 07:08									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's hard to show.

The burden of proof is on law enforcement to show the person would have committed the crime anyway.

	21-08-2003 07:18									#48
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If law enforcement offered for sale the same product at the same price with the same sales pitch as a spammer, and had it spammed to the same emails, you'd have the burden of proof.

	21-08-2003 07:21									#49
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So you would have the law enforcement officers spamming people with ads identical to spammer e-mails in a "sting" aimed at cutting down spam?

You do see how daft this is, yes?

I'm still waiting to hear the legal rationalization for punishing people for buying a legal product from a legal vendor.

	21-08-2003 10:12									#50
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Then, there are these things called filters and a good ISP I have one, perhaps you should too. Rarely do I get it. And when I do, theres this 'delete' button that comes in handy :P

You don't get it.

1. I need to pay for connection to download the crap to my e-mail client for the filters to work. This is absurd even on the surface. Even if I have unlimted connection time, spam still takes up bandwidth.

2. ISP's can only block spam when they get to their servers. This again means $$$ and bandwidth. Why should they pay for this junk in the first place?

quote: Originally posted by faded glory These this is what saddens me. The enormous amount of threat used when discussing this topic. Same old, Same old. Ya'll are a bunch of whores. Just a bit of common sense and 10 minutes of download time would prevent you from getting any spam.

Spammers are parasites. People hate parasites. Animals and plants hate parasites. They get killed, squashed, stomped on. Same for spammers.

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Its all a mute point. Spam will never be illegal or it will never be stopped in the general sense. So stop wasting your time talking about it.

That's what they all had said about smoking.

	21-08-2003 17:58									#51
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Ahem...

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990222

...and the conclusion:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990223

	21-08-2003 18:25									#52
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Faded Glory:
Any e-mail consumes a tiny amount of bandwidth (and hence costs money) both to the emitter and to the reciever. Spamming companies make a profit from spamming, but they have operating costs. When individuals spam thanks to an 'unlimited account' or somesuch, the cost is real, depite being bore by the ISP rather than by the spammer.

Same goes for recievers of the spam. They have to pay bandwidth to recieve it and then only filter it (you can't filter something you havene't recieved). Again, this work might be done by the ISPs, who have to suffer from the occuring costs.

Because of spam, ISPs also can provide less bandwidth than without for other activities. Spam can really kill some E-mail providers as it can hurt their (limited) bandwidth greatly.

All of this for the small profit of individuals too greedy to understand their activity hurts society as a whole. Like you.

Besides, spam can very well become illegal. Its techniques are illegal in the EU (a European is not allowed to take an email-adress from the internet for commercial prospection). Since it heavily relies on false advertisement, it can be punished for this reason as well. If the US takes the same progressive steps than the EU wrt personal data protection, you and you spammer colleagues will have to move to the Caiman Islands to perform your dirty job. And this might happen sooner than you'd think.

	21-08-2003 18:41									#53
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Viruses are relatively easy to protect against. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be illegal.

	21-08-2003 19:31									#54
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Another problem with filters is that they sometimes do block out needed e-mails. There was a problem awhile back when AOL's spam filter filtered out e-mails from Harvard University telling the people they were accepted for early decision.

	21-08-2003 19:34									#55
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I heard about that. That must suck.

Of course, if you're using AOL, you deserve it.

	21-08-2003 20:32									#56
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Check out the website of the ePrivacy Group, and specifically the PDF document Spam by the Numbers (if you don't believe spam is a problem).

Almost half of all e-mail that is being sent is spam, and the number is still rising. Don't tell me that doesn't affect bandwidth, and especially for something that the majority of people don't even want.

Plus, while with snailmail people still have a choice (at least in Holland, you can put a sticker on your mailbox if you don't want any unsolicited mail), and with phone calls, it's also possible to be removed.

With spam e-mail there is no such thing. You can't choose not to receive spam. Especially so because there is no definite way to distinguish them. Even the smartest spam filters can't be 100% precise, simply because spammers constantly change what their e-mails look like (if only things like deliberately misspelling words).

The least that should happen is something like what you can do with your phone number. That is, have the ability to unlist your e-mail address.
I believe there already are such initiatives, but of course, the vast majority of spam doesn't come from anyone participating in such initiatives.

	21-08-2003 21:10									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Dr. A. Cula Ahem...

Wouldn't that be great?