21-08-2003 01:30									#1
	How do I make and keep relations?? Increase the size of your Attachments

I wanted to bring to you the latest events that happened to me while playing the

Attachment: civ3.doc
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

	21-08-2003 07:09									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

First you will need to post a save to see what you referenced. Next you can not sit and must expand and improve you tiles.

	21-08-2003 10:06									#3
	Hi vmxa1: I need your e mail address Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi, I need your email address because I want you to be able to open the file of my scenario in your computer!! by your game itself!! otherwise I will never be able to show it because of the fact that only Frustratedpoet have put a file of mine into this forum successfully, (but as a start -he also gave me his email address- and I sent my file to him and gave him the instructions for opening it, and the same I want to do with you !!). I do not know at all why my files can not be attached in any simple way to this forum, thus if you do not mind and want to help me- this is the only way to do it and I will thankeful to you.

	21-08-2003 10:40									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

msade you can click on the flag under my name. This takes you to the member list. Here you can send email.
Anyway it is vmxa@sbcglobal.net

Last edited by vmxa1 on 21-08-2003 at 21:00

	21-08-2003 20:12									#5
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Here is the file. I just zipped it. Use "Post Reply", hit the "browse" button.

Attachment: hammurabi of the babylonians, 2048 ad.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

Last edited by vmxa1 on 21-08-2003 at 20:59

	21-08-2003 20:23									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So I will just hit a few of the main points:

Research in the industrial age, my preferred oder would be
Steam, Industrial, Elec, Medicine, Scientific
This is because I want the rails up ASAP as they boost production and allow me to get around instantly.
Industry for the Factories, may want to do some prebuilds in key cities for them. You need that boost.
Electricity and Medicine primarily as they are prereqs for Scientific. You want that to get the ToE among other things, such as toget to Replacement Parts.
I know that a builder only may see things a bit differently, but you can not go wrong with this track.

	21-08-2003 20:27									#7
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Chalk this up as an entry for "The weirdest threads you have ever seen..................."

	21-08-2003 20:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No way will I be in Despotism after I learn either Monarchy or Republic, that is just a killer for your empire.
Anarchy is worse, but it is like do you want a kick in the shin or in the rear. Both are bad.

Spending at 100% with -68 gpt and zero reserve. This will not work. You can not go negative without a reserve to cover or the game will sell of improvements.
At least sell your own selection if you must.
I will come back to why you are in this spot.

No trade potential with any civs. You must be connected to them to trade. This means roads/harbor or airports are required. Trade is not a must, but it is a useful piece of the puzzle. I did not check to see if you had embassies or not. I tend to slap them in when I get to my Wonder building phase. This lets me see who is building it and where they are. If they are way ahead on the one I am starting, then I know not to bother.

	21-08-2003 20:38									#9
	Remove this text

Ok, now on to the problems. First I would not spend any time on this game as it is 2048 and you can not win. The only reason the AI did not finish you off is it it is awful at invasions from the sea.

I would start a new game. Be sure to make some workers, one for each city at least. Have them improve tiles that are being worked by your citizens. Look in the city and see where they are working. Move them if it is not the best place. By that I mean if you see a citizen on a hill creating 1 food and 1 shield, and you have a bonus grassland in the city, move that pop to that tile.
Send a worker over to the tile and mine it and then road it. I will not deal with the cases where it is better to do it in reverse. You do not need to get that sophisticated yet.

You need roads to add commerce (read gold) to the empire. They also allow you to move around faster and share resources. You have no workers at all.

	21-08-2003 20:49									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Speaking of resources and I include lux here, you have not hooked up any. The iron will allow you to at least build swordsmen and upgrade warriors, once you have the money and a barracks. You have no horses, so you could not build Horsemen and Knights, etc.
The saltpetter is not connected, so no muskets and later rifles. You must connect all tiles by the time of Steam. You then will have that coal and can start in on the railroad building.

So what the cities are building is limited, but you need to be sure to get Libs and Temples up as they add culture. The libs add to research. I feel the game is meant to be micromanaged and the cities and workers are the keys. Look at Babylon. It is a size 9 with no growth. You are building a Hospitol there. You can not use it now as you are not growing anyway. I would surely have my capitol at size 12 by now, then the Hospital is a good idea.
If a city is not growing you need to see why and try to correct it. If it is at max, then add the structure to increase its size or research one. If it is not at max, see what is need to grow. Is it food, then irriagate or move a worker to a tile that produces more food.

	21-08-2003 20:57									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

If these concepts are not clear, I would suggest you go to CFC.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...?threadid=36486


This thread will step you through some early play by a master player (cracker). He can be harsh, but you will see how it is done move by move.

I would suggest you run a game similar to that here.
Make a new game post the 4000bc save.
Run 20 turns and post that. Then a review can be done and things can be suggested before it is too late to get back on track.
As long as the save is 500k or less it should be postable. If larger, zip it.

	21-08-2003 21:06									#12
	What is the best summery for a start? Remove this text

Dear vmxa1:

At the moment, I only understand the following things:

1) I must have workers for each city

2) they should work on tiles that have any bonus

3) I should contact with civilizations

4) from what you've mentioned, I still do not figure out
what about the maintenance of peace with the other
civs..?

5) I am interested to know what is the latest year in
which I can still win the game? (you've said that
there's no chance in and after 2048), and mybe
next time I will not lose a precious time but start
immediately all over again and not after hours of
playing the dam game..!

6) and after you answered the 5 last questions, is there
anything else here that I should know that would
be useful to me??

	21-08-2003 21:40									#13
	Re: What is the best summery for a start? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by msade
"2) they should work on tiles that have any bonus"

They should normally work on any tile that is being worked by a citizen. It is best that citizens be assign to the best tiles first. Eventually they will be working poor tiles as well.

"4) from what you've mentioned, I still do not figure out
what about the maintenance of peace with the other
civs..?"

That is a very long tricky subject. For now, I would just say 1- have a strong military 2- make trades 3- keep deals 4- if weak pay tribute (not my style)
This part of the game can come later.

"5) I am interested to know what is the latest year in
which I can still win the game? (you've said that
there's no chance in and after 2048), and mybe
next time I will not lose a precious time but start
immediately all over again and not after hours of
playing the dam game..!"

The game ends at 2050. You should have gotten a msg saying you will have to retire in 20 years.

"6) and after you answered the 5 last questions, is there
anything else here that I should know that would
be useful to me??"

Many things, but it is wise to not bite off more than you can chew. IOW get the basics of managing the workers and citizens first. Then you can add more skills later.

	21-08-2003 21:46									#14
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Like I said, I woudl recommend you create a new game. Save it before you do anything. Play maybe 20 turns and save again.
Post each save here or email it to me and I will critique it for you. If I see anything off, I will paly the turns and post a log of the moves. These may not be the best possible, but will surely be reasonable guidlines.
The purpose is to insure that you are aware of how you could go about building an empire.

BTW I could not load your save in PTW, so I had to use CivIII. You may want to mention which game you are using to make it easier for others. Sometimes even the patch level has an impact.
I am at PTW 121F and hence CivIII 129F. I am waiting to try 127F for PTW.

	05-09-2003 12:42									#15
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vmxa1 should get an award for doing this.

It's rare to see someone who is so helpful and thorough in any game forum.

	05-09-2003 16:16									#16
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yeah, vmxa1 - you're a star. Not are you only one of the most uncompromisingly militaristic players on the forum, you're also one of the most experienced and helpful. Good on ya!

For mdsade's question on relations I'd suggest the following :

If you just want to kick the cr*p out of the AI then, as vmxa1 understands, good relations aren't that important - other than (1)keeping the ability to use ROPs to access 3rd party enemies, and (2) being allowed to pay gpt should you require it.

To keep these two, (1) don't violate ROPs and (2) don't break gpt deals, but otherwise go crush them.

If you want to play peaceful builder and have not mastered the game then play at Regent or below for less aggressive neighbours and no build penalties for yourself, and/or observe the following principles for good relations.

1. Establish embassies asap.
2. Sign and maintain ROPs. Sell ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs and buy from larger, stronger ones if they're scary. Beware the sneak attack though.
3. Trade science.
4. Trade maps regularly. (if you've no strategic reason for avoiding releasing your map)
5. Trade resources. This is the most important as it (a) improves relations and (b) gives the AI a reason not to attack you. vmxa1 mentioned roads and harbours.
6. Try and pay the AI in GPT, and take as much payment as possible in cash. If the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment (especially if skint). If you could buy something for 1000G, or pay 52GPT, use the latter, otherwise they can take the money and run.
7. Be good. Don't break any deals.
8. Be kind. I often keep Bismark or Xerxes off my back by gifting them gold (especially GPT) and being sweet so that they go attack each other instead.
9. Be strong. Have a decent size army with well defended borders and remote colonies to discourage attack.
10. Be wise. Peace-play often hinges on battling it out on the diplomacy screen. Shop around, and shop regularly. Eventually you can learn to sniff out which techs the AI is researching and at what pace. Then you can make the most lucrative deals at the right time and in the late game, cream off much of the economic surplus of the world by selling the fruits of a tech lead for mega gpt.

	05-09-2003 20:10									#17
	Got spare money?

You are too kind. I in fact ran a log and sent her a start game with the log. She responded with some further questions, but that was as far as it got.
I just remember all the times I got questions answered on game forums and how I appreciated it (especially the old Might and Magic forum). Of course you get the ones that ask a question and never come back for any of the suggestions.
Over the past two years I would have stopped and be playing a game once every 6 months, if it was not for the forum here. (Not sure if that is such a good thing, now that I think of it.)

	06-09-2003 13:37									#18
	Hi Vmxa Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Do not worry Vmxa1, I was just too preoccupied lately with stupid things..

I am going to return to the game and continue with you, just be patient...

	08-09-2003 02:24									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Vmxa:

That was a great thread of a good succession game. I wonder if some AU regulars could start up a succession game for the new players. AU games are great for honing the skill level of accomplished players but with new players they typically need more individualized instruction that a succession game can provide.

	08-09-2003 02:33									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That's a good thought about the AU succession game Mad Bomber. It was proposed in that thread Theseus started a few months ago, though I don't remember who proposed it, but didn't get much farther at the time. Maybe Nuclear Master as the AU Dean can follow up on this thought a bit. I'll PM him right now to see if he can pursue this a bit more.

	08-09-2003 02:35									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh, and since I didn't say it before... to vmxa1. Most of the strat forum regulars are more than happy to help newer players learn the game, but he has definitely taken it to another level.

	08-09-2003 14:20									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Vmxa: I wonder if some AU regulars could start up a succession game for the new players. AU games are great for honing the skill level of accomplished players but with new players they typically need more individualized instruction that a succession game can provide.

Just a thought:
Why not create a thread like my 'Emperor level: how to improve your skills' but on Monarch or even Regent?
Or would this be not individualized enough?
Anybody to volunteer?

vmxa1: quote ' I sent her...' so msade is a 'she'?
well msade, welcome, I thought civ 3 was only for 'hes'

	08-09-2003 20:51									#23
	Got spare money?

MS, I thought that is what was going to happen after a fashion in AU. There would be several levels of games with some players doing a parallel.
It is a lot easier to do a segment, than a whole game. The other issue is that I am not sure if there is complete agreement on how to play. Several tactics are viable.
Some play more or less all warmonger, others play mainly builders and others mix it up. I know I am terrible on trading and diplomatic portions. I just don't care for it and take the hit.
The real effort would be to make it detailed enough and readable. Some here are very good a putting their games forward in an enjoyable light (not me).

	09-09-2003 18:24									#24
	Remove this text

vmxa1,

One advantage I see in a 'Monarch thread' is that people like msade (she or he??? she put 'Dear vmxa1, after all) can bring her/his own game and we could have fun playing her/his game AND commenting it, without the AU's restrictions.
What do you think?

	09-09-2003 20:43									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I see it as all good. Most of the new players that come here likely play Warlord and some Regent. If they are beyond that point we have plenty of threads for them.
I believe that the ones that have gotten the most as new comers are those that had their own threads and started a game at what ever the level was they are using. I think we have at least had Warlord players do that and are now comfortable at emperor.
It takes some time to play a game or three at the first two levels one starts with. After that they have the skills and are just rolling along.

	10-09-2003 15:28									#26
	Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me? Support Apolyton

BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl.

1) What did he mean by being a Regent? how do I become a Regent? 2) What advantage do I get from selling ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs? 3) How do I get the GPT payment in cash? 4) Explain to me the sentence: "if the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment???(especially if skint???) 5) Do I get well defended borders by putting many soldiers there? 6) Does only Elizabeth's Civ have colonies? if not- how do the others have? 7) What is exactly AI?

	10-09-2003 21:46									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Regent is one of the level of difficulty in the game. He did not know you were playing at Chieftain, which is easier than Regent.

	10-09-2003 21:52									#28
	Re: Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by msade BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl. 5) Do I get well defended borders by putting many soldiers there? 6) Does only Elizabeth's Civ have colonies? if not- how do the others have? 7) What is exactly AI?

#7) AI stands for artifical Inteligence, it is a way to refer to other civs or the way the game thinks.
#6) not sure of the context here, but colonies can be either other towns you have taken from the AI or it could be the structures that are created by workers to use resources.
#5) that will do it.

	10-09-2003 22:06									#29
	Re: Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by msade BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl. 2) What advantage do I get from selling ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs? 3) How do I get the GPT payment in cash? 4) Explain to me the sentence: "if the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment???(especially if skint???)

#2) well this one is not really up my alley. IMO it is to be avoided for the most part. The concept is you gain some gold by selling it to a weaker civ and they are no threat to you. Stronger civ will be slowr to atack when you have money coming their way.

#3) When you make a trade deal, you have two choices 1- gpt
2- lump sum

#4) I did not follow the skint part. The main point is that if the AI (read one of the civs) is paying you gold per turn for something like a tech, it can avoid the payments if it goes to war. This will not be the main reason, but if you were in the same spot and were thinking of war, that could be the thing that tips the scales. If they were paying you for lux or iron or anything they would need, they would be less likely to want to cut that off. They need those items. That does not mean they won't, but it will be less likely. You can not assume the AI will be rational either. If you beat it, that does not prevent it from declaring war or an embargo on you. It is not like you, we would think hard about poking someone that had just handed us our head.

	11-09-2003 16:37									#30
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(msade PM'd those Q's to me - here's a copy of my reply)

1. Regent is the difficulty level, selected on the new game start up screen.

2. ROP = Right of Passage. Once you've got an embassy with a civ, (needs Writing) you can sign a ROP agreement on the diplomacy screen. This allows each civ to access each other's land without violating peace. It significantly improves relations between civs. If you are stonger (land & military) that the other civ you can add money to their side of the table. If weaker, you might need to add money to your side.

3. I don't have the game in front of me but on the diplomacy screen, under gold, you can choose lump sum or gold-per-turn (GPT)

4. All deals are cancelled when war is declared. If Rome owed me 30 gold per turn from a tech deal then declared war, it doesn't pay any more and the deal is dead.

5. By 'well-defended' I mean with military units, yes. Where and how many depended on a lot of things. At least two defensive units (preferably veteran) in border cities early on, added to as the game progresses. Offensive units also help with defense.

6. Any civ can have colonies. What I mean by 'colony' is distant city on an island or remote continent. They can be weak and vunerable, requiring units shipped out to defend. The other sort of colony is the worker colony - built on a resource outside your borders and linked by road to the capital.

7. AI is the Artificial Intelligence - the computer civ.


* skint = broke. If Persia is getting 50gpt from Rome, allowing me to sell sell tech to Persia for 70gpt, and then Rome's 20-turn payment ends, Persia might not have the economy to sustain the payments to me without disbanding units or improvements. Declaring war releases them from the debt.