21-08-2003 21:21									#1
	Operation Agent Orange: Taking V back Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From all the new threads popping up, and the flurry of discussion ensuing, I do think there's one thing one can say there's a broad agreement on: Organizing a force to take out Valencia and around, then defend it. This is but a step in our attempt to rid the area of the riders by taking S, which allows us to shorten our front, recreate the buffer that defended the important towns of B and NM.

V should be an easy target, but regardless we'll take a sizeable force that could get the job done, even if GoW concentrates all that they have in the area.

I just looked at the save- I have to say that our plans to use forces from Stormia for the job are not viable for at least 5+ turns, simply because we don't have ANYTHING down there, southern Stormia is pratically units free, If we want to start and move forces before that time, we'll have to use what we have on Bob, whether we move them by land or by boat.

I'm really not a tactician, and I havn't delved into NYE defense plan, so I don't know if we can afford to devote units from the B defense force (I'd certainly wouldn't consider diverting from around P).

We need to discuss the following:

1) How many troops, and of which composition (I'd suggest slow moving fodder)?

2) How many forces we have available for the job, whether from Stormia or from around B?

3) Transportation

4) Last but not least (and perhaps the most important): Timeframe- when do we plan to carry this out (I wouldn't neglect the psychological factor, we need some gains and quickly, but we mustn't be careless either).

	21-08-2003 21:50									#2
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My vote would be 4 Pike and 4 Knights minimum.

We get that much force together, we can make a good showing.

Start with whatever we can put on the ridgeline NOW to see if there's even a garrison there. If not, the force above is enough to occupy town and hold it.

If there's a garrison, then we need to try to get a sense for what (if any) other forces might be in the neighborhood, and from that, gain a reckoning on how many are currently in Valencia.

But 4/4 as outlined above gives us a presence. One that won't get chased off....

-=Vel=-

	22-08-2003 00:16									#3
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You want to throw 4 of our knights into the fray? Could we not do 4 pike/4 med inf instead? Or are you worried that they have enough firepower to kill the 4 pikes and get to the med infs?

-Arrian

	22-08-2003 00:16									#4
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As for having just about nothing in S. Stormia... maybe we should cut our iron...

-Arrian

	22-08-2003 01:39									#5
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Yeah....4 Med Infs would work just as well....was just not 100% sure of what we had in the neighborhood. 4 pikes and 4 good attackers, whatever they might be....

-=Vel=-

	22-08-2003 01:59									#6
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As to their firepower....I hope they DO attack the stack. Our 4 Pikes (especially if they're attacked on the hill overlooking V) will take some of their expensive troops with them....and that's a shield victory for us, no matter what....

-=Vel=-

	22-08-2003 02:00									#7
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My problem is that I don't know where our galleys are, and what they have on them. So I can't really comment on what we should do *right now*

I don't get the save (and don't really want to - I'm not often online at home, and my dialup connection has been screwy lately), so I can't really check up on that.

With illustrated screenies, however, we can all comment on the situation. I know they can be a pain to do, but they really help those of us who do most of our 'polying from, um, "work."

-Arrian

	22-08-2003 02:03									#8
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Too true!

-=Vel=-
(posting from...."work")

	22-08-2003 02:09									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Our galleys are running back and forth from around WW to Siroco, and currently have run out of anything to transport besides a cat and a med inf (one of each). So we can safely say that everything we have, besides forces defending the north is on Bob right now. I can safely say that we can commit 4 p and 4 mi to do the job, perhaps even more (5 of each, maybe?).

We might also want to send the forces by boat, but I'm not sure if its faster or not (we also send these galleys far from our regular shipping line, and something might lurk in there...).

	22-08-2003 05:52									#10
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If we've got 'em, by all means, the more the merrier....as for the galleys...that's a sure sign we have plenty of them....let's stop makin' more and focus on stuff to put on 'em!

-=Vel=-

	22-08-2003 08:09									#11
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I would say 5 p and 5 mi can be spared, for sure. I think they could go by boat, but I want to see the save first to be sure. That would be considerably faster then by land.

Also, a force of 8 knights could be available to move onto the ridge line north of V.

let me do some digging...

	22-08-2003 15:44									#12
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With that kind of force available, we can not only retake V, but threaten to sweep back through the whole of the southlands. If we have 18 units to play with, we're ready to rumble! (provided that we consider the 8 knights as "swing units", ready to dispatch some/all of them back north if things take an unexpected turn.

Nonetheless, that's an impressive show of strength down that way.

If we do that (use the 8 knight stack), then we may wanna consider moving some of our other stacks near the front to less exposed positions (as of the last save, I remember seeing a small stack of knights and cats near Pamplona....be a pity to lose those cats and not have much to hit back with to recapture)

-=Vel=-

	22-08-2003 15:56									#13
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I think its best we keep our knights at bay for now: we don't need them right now- they might prove useful if we want to carry our operation beyond V, or if GoW bring more riders than expected down south, and we need some extra firepower- but I'd like to keep them around B for a little bit more, in case GoW or ND makes an attempt.

Besides, I'm not so sure I'm thrilled with going deep into the the west before retaking Sal.

	22-08-2003 16:14									#14
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Well, one good thing on that point....with the roads that we have in place and will be building, that's six tiles of movement per turn for our sturdy knights....they could relocate VERY quickly if a particular area suddenly turned into a hot-zone and they were needed. Even if we don't put them on the front lines for V, I think posting them to a more centralized location, so they could quickly swing north or south, might be a good call--and if we could find safe places for them (good defensive terrain), possibly breaking them into two stacks of 4, posted 2-3 tiles apart from each other, could extend their attack zone....

-=Vel=-