23-08-2003 20:49									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Oh, the creationists have to be a top form of delutional denial. As a geologist I can't help but snicker whenever I hear those funimentalist Christian radio stations talking about "geologic proof of the great flood" or "geologic proof the world is only 3,000 years old". These idiots often don't know the first thing about palentology yet they think they know enough to disprove sound science based upon what they've read in a three chapter fundie book.

As a geologist you're part of the conspiracy. Nothing you say can be trusted.

	23-08-2003 20:52									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: The delusional top ten

Boddington's

	23-08-2003 20:52									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael As a geologist you're part of the conspiracy. Nothing you say can be trusted.

The sad thing is that this is exactly what the Creationists say...

	23-08-2003 21:01									#34
	Support Apolyton

Oerdin, how do you know this?
Proteus: the Israeli Settler organisations want to live in peace-they're just stupid-exceedingly stupid. You don't see many settlers killing palestinians, do you?
Albert: Consider the fact that the PA itself is exceedingly corrupt, and I don't think anyone should pity it. Also consider that it is filled with terrorists, I don't think anyone should pity it even moreso. Israel isn't an angel, but it does have a strange addiction to wanting peace A LOT (of course there are exceptions here and there...).
I point to Israeli culture as proof-its filled with songs wishing for peace and etc, and none for killing or bloodshed, for example.

	23-08-2003 21:35									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zevico Oerdin, how do you know this? Proteus: the Israeli Settler organisations want to live in peace-they're just stupid-exceedingly stupid. You don't see many settlers killing palestinians, do you?

After some reports about Human Rights Violations there also seem to be Settlers who destroy palestinian Property and kill Palestinians.
But yes, Violence of Settlers hapens of course on a much smaller Scale, than terrorist Atacks by Hamas et al. that is right.

Most Settlers (or to be more specific their Organisations) donīt want to kill the Palestinians, here I agree.
But they still want to have a single jewish State, which encompasses Israel and all of the Westbank.

No other Reason is there for their ongoing attempts to build more and more Setlements on palestinian Property.
Just as Leaders in Hamas and other palestinian Organisations dream of a large Palestinian State (which includes Israel) the Settlers dream of a large jewish State (including Westbak and probably Gaza).

Although I donīt know if the Leaders of the Settler Organizations wish to have an Empty Westbank (with the palestinian Population deported to other Arab Countries), just as many Leaders of Hamas and Co probably dream of an arab Great Palestina without Jews, or if they could also live with an Great Israel in which they have to share the Lands with the Palestinians.

	23-08-2003 21:42									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

Zevico:

Let me put it this way... Israel wins if they get peace, palestine doesn't... Israel's only goal is to have a country for jews in the levant... which they acheived but now just got to hold onto it... the arab goal is to not have israel there... on any peace agreement, the arabs will have to compromise but are the israelis really compromising? no. peace obtains their entire goal...

	23-08-2003 21:45									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Zevico Oerdin, how do you know this?

The average student spends 4-5 years learning the basics of this science. I can't exactly explain all of the methods in a single thread.

	23-08-2003 21:46									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think he was referring to your perspective on the Israel-Palestine conflict, Oerdin.

	23-08-2003 22:11									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The KKK is outdated and in need of purging. Initially, it was a "good" idea. Newly freed Blacks, being prodded by Yankee Carpetbaggers to cause trouble. Pretty much how "Gone With The Wind" depicts it. The group of men, that rode to avenge the attack on Scarlett O'Hara? KKK.

Yes -- the belief that the Ku Klux Klan was initally a good idea is definitely a major delusion.

	23-08-2003 22:14									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The Belief that german Concentrationscamps (Konzentrationslager) were just an Invention of the Allied Propaganda is another major Delusion
(which seems to be held by many Neonazis and Fascists)

	23-08-2003 22:17									#41
	Tired of ads?

Many neo-Nazi's and KKK members in the Us claim the halocaust never happened. With so much video, evidience, and eye witness accounts I think this qualifies as delusional.

	23-08-2003 23:32									#42
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The biggest dillusion I can think of (at least in human minds), is the fallacy of human greatness - that is egocentrism or geocentrism. You could also extend that to socio-centrism or conservatism, but its too late in the day for me to be thinking...

EDIT: For those that haven't noticed, I like my isms!

	23-08-2003 23:35									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The problem here is that people make their own dillusions. "Reality", and what we would perceive to be the antithesis to a dillusion, is itself an illusion of perception in the mind. We differenciate between illusion and dillusion because some others "illusions" may disagree with ours. Thats putting it simplistically, hope it makes sense.

	23-08-2003 23:38									#44
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

how the hell is conservatism in any way (specific group)-centric? the two concepts have absolutely nothing to do with each other...

	23-08-2003 23:41									#45
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Albert: Dont get me into this now, I'm not in the mood for a flame war. I'm writing another article on it I can pm you if you want, in the meantime theres something on my website on liberalism that should give you the jist of it.

I'm depressed today, no-one debate with me!

	23-08-2003 23:47									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i think another major delusion is that conservatives and right-wingers are evil, selfish, greedy, racist, etc. i mean its ridiculous how far liberals will go to vilify people with such unfounded adjectives

	23-08-2003 23:48									#47
	Support Apolyton

how about these guys for delusional?

http://www.vhemt.org/

	23-08-2003 23:49									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Elijah:
Your last post is absolutely true (in my illusions ) save for one thing.

[note: since I'll be talking about reality and truth, a few little definitions won't hurt: in my vocabulary, "reality" is the objective state of affairs that surrounds us; "truth" is what we percieve and how we evaluate reality. I prefer to do these definitions first, because otherwise, we'd have some confusions]

I think truth is always based on reality and is never completely baseless. While we cannot have access to pure reality, some truthes are more "real" than other because they're more connected to reality.

For example, AFAIK, the Flat Earth Society doesn't take into account the fact that the globe has been circumnavigated or that you see stars very differently depending from where you stand on the planet.

	23-08-2003 23:49									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree. These fools should go extinct.

	23-08-2003 23:49									#50
	Suffering from ads?

Albert: We're all evil!

	23-08-2003 23:51									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer i think another major delusion is that conservatives and right-wingers are evil, selfish, greedy, racist, etc. i mean its ridiculous how far liberals will go to vilify people with such unfounded adjectives

This is an ordinary olitical strategy. You conservatives do exactly the same (and even worse) when accusing the liberals of being faulty for terrorism, traitors, "un-Americans" etc.

	23-08-2003 23:53									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There's only one truly big delusion and that's the absurd claim that I could be wrong about anything. Pah!

	23-08-2003 23:55									#53
	Support Apolyton

Spiffor: I concur entirely, except that "reality" to a point can always be made to be subjective.

Its the classic Russell thing really. The desk that I'm typing at is made out of wood, its me that perceives it as a table. The wood is made of organic molecules, then atoms, then subatmomic particles, then energy, then fluctuations in 4 dimensional space time . I can literally (although not, for obvious reasons) go on forever. There is no objective state of affairs independent to human perception so a "steady state reality" is non-existent. As such, all we are left with is truth as you put it, which defines our reality.

	23-08-2003 23:59									#54
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by skywalker It does...

See... delusional....

quote: but this is in clear violation of the first post...

Well, considering every candidate before my post was conected to religion, I can hardly be blamed, can I?

	24-08-2003 00:08									#55
	Suffering from ads?

This is bad

But it gets worse

quote: Her insightful and playful cartoon collections include "Nina's Adventures" and "Depression is Fun".

I can say now, with utmost fortitude and determination, that in the face of this adversity, I will continue breeding, and even if I am the last sexually active male of the human race, I will continue to work to propagate my DNA!! It looks like the future of the human race is down to me....

	24-08-2003 00:10									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'd just like to point out that there is a hebrew translation, but there isn't an arab one. You've got to give one thing to the muslims; Their loons are more conventional.

	24-08-2003 00:13									#57
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Translation of what?

	24-08-2003 00:34									#58
	Tired of ads?

of that vhemt site.

	24-08-2003 00:40									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by elijah Spiffor: I concur entirely, except that "reality" to a point can always be made to be subjective. Its the classic Russell thing really. The desk that I'm typing at is made out of wood, its me that perceives it as a table. The wood is made of organic molecules, then atoms, then subatmomic particles, then energy, then fluctuations in 4 dimensional space time . I can literally (although not, for obvious reasons) go on forever. There is no objective state of affairs independent to human perception so a "steady state reality" is non-existent. As such, all we are left with is truth as you put it, which defines our reality.

Iīve got to totally agree with Elijah.

And as we all differ somehow in the way in which Informations are processed in the Brain and have Differences in our Sensory Cells (for Example the Numbers of Receptors in our Eye for Blue, Green and Red) the world is seen diferently by every Person.

Our Differences in Education also mean, that every Person interprets certain events in a different way.
A good Example of Differences in Education is the Difference beteen medieval and modern people:
Medieval People knew, that Sun (which evolves around earth) sank below the Horizon, because Earth is flat; they also knew that we only perceive the Outside World, because our Eyes emit some kind of Beam (he same Beams which can hurt you if the Person wehich stares at you has an evil Gaze) and that Maggots in rotng Flsh came out of nithing by he Power of God.
We know, that Sun just vanishes because Earth revolvs around axis and that our Eyes donīt emit Beams, but that Beams of the Sun are reflected and enter the eyes and we know that Flies just lay their Eggs into the rotting Flesh and that it is these eggs which bring up maggots.

To a lesser extent much interindividual Differences in Education are still to be found throughout the world and lead them to interpret things differently (for example Differences between a poor Muslim Farmer and a western Scientist).

Maybe Science in some hundred years (as long as the humans survive this long) will find our way of thinking delusional

	24-08-2003 00:50									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: And as we all differ somehow in the way in which Informations are processed in the Brain and have Differences in our Sensory Cells (for Example the Numbers of Receptors in our Eye for Blue, Green and Red) the world is seen diferently by every Person.

i always wondered about this but is it possible that i see the leaves on the tree (which i call green) as the colour that you call purple? while the colour of leaves you see as the colour that i call black? or is there an objective colour system?