24-08-2003 00:29									#1
	CivII in X.3 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I know it's premature, but I'm first wondering how many of us are getting X.3, and next I'm wondering if you think Classic and Civ II will work just as fine as it has in X.2.

I'd almost not want to upgrade if some of my games didn't still work in Classic, and yet I don't want to be the first to try it. (yeah, I'm chicken.)

I suppose we'll find out in a few months, eh?

	24-08-2003 11:48									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's my understanding that 10.3 will *not* support any older programs that rely on Classic to operate. IOW, if you want to use those programs, you'll probably have to partiition your HD and put OS9 on the partition and go from there.

Also, that's one of the reasons I'm not keen right now on switching to a new iMac. Those numbskulls at Apple keep changing the damn OS, and are now making it next to impossible to use older software on it.

If I'm going to have to put up with that crap, I'd rather do so as a PC user. At least I'll be among the 90 percent of humanity suffering, instead of a paltry 2.7 percent.

Gatekeeper

	24-08-2003 22:42									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So they're completly killing the Classic environment come X.3?

	24-08-2003 23:09									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I believe so. I sure as hell hope I'm wrong, but everything I've read and heard indicates otherwise.

Gatekeeper

	25-08-2003 03:46									#5
	Tired of ads?

Now you're not mistaking disabling startup in OS 9 with not using OS 9/Classic are you?

	25-08-2003 16:50									#6
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Getting rid of classic alltogether seems very unlikely...

	25-08-2003 18:16									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's what I was thinking... disabling being able to boot in Classic has already been done on the newer Macs.

	26-08-2003 10:36									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To be honest, I'm not sure how OS9 works in OSX. I was under the impression that you could be in X and run an app dependent on 9 w/o having to close out of X — it'd just bring up the "Classic" environment as some sort of overlay on X.

I've received conflicting information on 10.3 and what it portends for Classic apps. Like I said earlier, I sure as hell I'm wrong as wrong can be, because I really don't want to *not* be able to use programs that are dependent on something other than X for an OS.

I'll make a pit stop at MacCentral and ask the whizzes over there what they've heard and report back, providing 'Poly isn't offline when I try to log back in.

Gatekeeper

	26-08-2003 21:06									#9
	Tired of ads?

As FlameFlash noted, the most recent revision of the G4's are not capable of booting into OS 9 (to clarify, these are the FireWire 800 models which were pulled from the Apple store when the G5's were announced... The G4's that you can currently purchase from the apple store are actually the previous generation, which will still boot into OS 9).

WARNING: *** Massive over simplification to follow ***

The "Classic Environment" (OS 9 in a box) is basically an application that emulates the OS 9 operating system (or runs the OS 9 operation system in an application shell.) Think of it as Virtual PC for OS 9.

Classic will continue to be supported on OS 10.3 and probably beyond. As much as they might wish otherwise, there are simply applications out there which either can not or will not be made OS X compatible. Lack of software titles has always been a complaint about the Mac OS, and Apple is not blind to that. Continuing to support the Classic Environment is one means to addressing that issue.

[rant] In the case of productivity software, suitable replacement programs will eventually be written. Game companies, on the other hand, are always moving forward to the "next great thing" and have no incentive to invest time in old titles. In my opinion this is a darn shame. Games are getting bigger, prettier, and more complex, with no regard for playability. I still play, almost exclusively, MOO II and Civ II, because they are great games that you can wrap your head around, and they don't require a liquid cooled supercomputer with the latest generation 3D graphics card to play. [/rant]

	27-08-2003 08:25									#10
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Thanks for the confirmation that our fears were misplaced

Now if I could only find a Carbon copy of CtP and CivII like I did SMAC/SMAX...

	27-08-2003 14:00									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Insane, et al.:

What you wrote is basically what the folks over at MacCentral told me. So, insofar as I can tell, all you have to do to play Civ II under 10.3 is launch the "virtual" OS 9 shell and start playing.

Gatekeeper

P.S. And, for the record, 'Poly was slower than molasses the other two times I tried to access it on Tuesday, hence this late post after Insane has graciously cleared up all the confusion.

	28-08-2003 04:22									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper P.S. And, for the record, 'Poly was slower than molasses the other two times I tried to access it on Tuesday, hence this late post after Insane has graciously cleared up all the confusion.

LOL... My fault... It went down right after I submitted my post.

	29-08-2003 06:45									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I received my LaCie external 3.5" floppy disk drive today, only to find out that it won't work on 8.5.1. Heh. So I've since downloaded 8.6, and plan to do an "easy" install. According to one of my IT friends at work (she's Mac-knowledgable), all I should have to do is install and reboot ... and things should come up fine in 8.6.

Gatekeeper

	29-08-2003 06:56									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

* FlameFlash nods.

Too true. I take it you have a USB card?

	29-08-2003 10:51									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yep. The computer came with four USB ports — two on the keyboard, two on the case itself.

I've since installed 8.6 and it worked like a charm. I'll wait until Friday to install the drivers for the Lacie ... BTW, does CarbonLib 1.6 work properly in 8.6? Apple's knowledgebase article said 8.6 to 9.x.x were the OS's meant for CL 1.6, but I'm paranoid when it comes to messing with things that add or delete files from my Systems folder.

Gatekeeper

	29-08-2003 23:47									#18
	Suffering from ads?

I have no clue about that... just thinking about Mac OS 8.6 makes my head hurt

	30-08-2003 03:23									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I know the feeling ... but when you have to do it, you have to do it. And I did, if I wanted to make use of my Lacie drive.

	30-08-2003 05:12									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What's the model of your older Mac? I'd have thought that it would have still had a 3.5 floppy drive... or did it burn out like so many old 3.5 drives did on those older Macs?

	30-08-2003 08:19									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

My iMac came only with a CD drive ... it's my understanding that that's how all iMacs shipped (and still do).

	30-08-2003 09:13									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow, I'm impressed that iMacs are actually that old... I thought they were OS 9 and up.

	30-08-2003 23:58									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah, tell me about it. Hard to believe I got this iMac in May 1999 and have never had a problem with it. Now that's *reliability* for you! Oh, I've had the occasional bit of trouble, but it's always been a software glitch or my ISP ... never the iMac itself.

I've got everything installed now — 8.6., CarbonLib 1.6, Font Manger Updater (apparently a necessity in order for 8.6 to work right ... didn't know that until the good folks at MacCentral made me aware of it), and the drivers for my external drive.

The biggest "trouble" came when, after putting in the drivers for the Lacie drive and plugging it into one of my USB ports, I couldn't get on the Internet. Heh. I thought it might have turned something off while installing its drivers, but, no, that wasn't the case. I had knocked out my ethernet cable while struggling to push in the USB cable dor the drive. Heh. Plugged it back in, and here I am!

Gatekeeper

	31-08-2003 04:43									#24
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Glad to hear that it's working well for you then.

	11-11-2003 05:16									#25
	Installing Civ II in OS 10.3 Increase Your PM Length

Does anyone know how to install Civ II in Mac OS 10.3? I just bought a CD of Civ II in the original box, and have been having a lot of trouble installing it. I can get it to start to install, but it only goes part of the way before giving me an error message -- usually "error reading disc" or "IO error".

Any ideas?

	11-11-2003 10:24									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

First question: Do you have Classic (Mac OS 9.2) installed on your system?