25-08-2003 04:25									#61
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Well, it doesn't make it the truth, but according to me interpretation of religion I'm in, he doesn't go to hell if he knows what he did was wrong, and he repents, and he accepts Jesus to be his saviour and believes in it.
He's obivously sexual predator, sick man. I don't think this counts for any sympathy here in earth, so I think what happened to him wasn't horrible, though he was wrongly killed. But if he was sincere and all the stuff I wrote earlier, according to my beliefs, he gets in just like everyone else who does the same.

Because that's what he truly was, sexual predator. And I think he being sick that way, he can be accepted, but not here in earth, where we actually have to deal with this ******* raping kids. But then again, there is a possibility of him not repenting at all, so then he gets to have the rod of fire in his butt. Only my interpretations, no need to get angry about it or offended, and I do not consider this the ultimate truth, just my interpretation that can chance but as of now I'll stick to this one.

	25-08-2003 04:28									#62
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But then again, looks like he had a career of molesting kids and not changing his ways. And as a priest, he's supposed to be the moral cornerstone of society, guiding peoples spiritual side. It is obvious, that he knew what he was doing at the same time and did not change his position. He should have confessed to authorities in the sake of making him unable to continue his dirty ways.
Do it once or twice, or some time.. you know,, wake up and realize, do something about it. You're hurting innocent people. But to just pray for strength to avoid the lust in his beast heart isn't enough, because like I said, he had a whole career. He never stopped.

So if he truly repented, he should have showed it in action a bit more. I guess he coudln't overcome his sick ways. But then again, that would make him truly sick man, not being able to stop. And according to my interpretation, he is sick and must be cured and forgiven. But not here... only in the upstairs.

but in here, letting the life out of him wouldn't be wrong.. like you know 'may god save you' or something and eliminate the miserable creature. But it didn't make it right for the inmate to kill him. I think he wasn't assigned for the job, if someone, it would have been the state.
So, in a way I could see the inmate who killed him going to hell if he doesn't repent at all, and the priest going to heaven if he tried to help himself and wants to be cured.
But I'm not a religious leader, nor do I have any facts, just what I believe in as I now speak. At least I'd like to think that's the way it goes..

Last edited by Pekka on 25-08-2003 at 04:36

	25-08-2003 05:03									#63
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quote: Why do you dismiss every idea you hear as the plot of goons with ulterior motives?

because I'm a cynical bastard...

quote: I don't believe I've ever seen you actually *consider* an idea suggested by others. Why?

because I'm smarter than you all... what do these questions have to do with the topic or even what we were talking about?

	25-08-2003 10:29									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident am I the only one glad he's dead? You people are sick! And you think I'm weird and crazy? Why would you wish for this guy to suffer and be raped?

If it matters, I think both the Insufficient Vengeance and the Appropriate Punishment sides are sick.

Death should be something you opt in, not something forced onto you by peers or the State. He was sentenced to imprisonment and that's the only punishment he deserves.

Will the religious people shut up already? I don't care if you think he'll be reincarnated as a rock or as a slug.

	25-08-2003 14:28									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't think sins are just sins because God says so... even if God doesn't exist, sins still do. They are above him.

So you believe in a set of universal 'laws', which state what is a sin and what isn't? And where did they come from?

	25-08-2003 14:56									#66
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quote: even if God doesn't exist, sins still do. They are above him.

Another question, can sin still exist if no other person knows that you have sinned?

	25-08-2003 15:04									#67
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Yes, this is the same kind of question as if tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a noise? .

I'd say yes. Remembering something that Plato said... though making my own example and making even more extreme, that there is no person to know about it:

If you compose a song, and then die, no one ever heard it or even played it. The notes of your song all demolish. Now, does this song exist or not?

If you answer no, then what if the notes of the song you made still exist in some cave no one ever finds. Does the song exist? The notes do, but doest the song?

Do you need a person to think about it before it can exist?

	25-08-2003 20:03									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh This one of one the main guys in the recent findings in the massachusetts area. Serving his 9 year sentence he got 'in a fight' where he was shanked. heh

These things are rarely accidents. A "fight" happened to a convicted cop killer in NJ. The outcome was the same. One of this preist's victims probably had connections to someone in Mass' prison law enforcement system who arranged this "fight".

I'm surprised, however, that they had a sex offender in the same prison as a murderer. NJ has seperate prisons for sex offenders since other types of convicts tend to treat sex offenders poorly when the two are mixed..

	26-08-2003 04:01									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Sava because I'm a cynical bastard... because I'm smarter than you all... what do these questions have to do with the topic or even what we were talking about?

Very little. They have mostly to do with whether I should continue to bother arguing with you. I'm not going to tack you onto the ignore list-you're too likable for that-but if you're just going to plug your ears there is very little to be gained from responding to anything you say, y'know?

	26-08-2003 05:09									#70
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Edited by Ming... one post away from a restriction GP...

Last edited by Ming on 26-08-2003 at 05:26

	26-08-2003 09:28									#71
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Yeah GP

punkass

	26-08-2003 10:42									#72
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Little clearing up now that details have arisen:

No shanking, the man was bound, beaten and strangled.
Aparently he was able to get into the guys cell, and jam the door open. Tied the guy up, beat him, stangled him a little and beat him some more.

The acused was serving life for murder, and is a self proclaimed neo-nazi/ homophobe. The murder he was convicted for was an anti-gay hate crime type deal. He confessed straight away to killing the priest, and remains kind of proud of it.
[/update]

	26-08-2003 13:29									#73
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So he was executed after all.

	27-08-2003 20:21									#74
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I just wanted to expound on a post I made earlier in this thread. I am not entirely conviced that Geoghan's death occured because of a security lapse in the prison, per se. Whenever I read stories about prison deaths like Geoghan's I take them with a grain of salt.

I was a Corrections Officer in NJ prison system for a few years in the late 1980's. On occasion I worked in the Protective Custody Unit (PCU) at a particular prison. The procedure for handling PCU inmates like Geoghan make it very clear that they are to be completely segregated from the rest of the population. Only an officer who willingly ignores these rules could allow such an incident as Geoghan's death to occur.

So why would an officer willingly ignore these rules? Because of his personal feelings about an inmate? I doubt if he would put his own job in jeopardy because of his personal feelings about an inmate. A prison guard job is really a cake job that pays a pretty good salary. If you dont have a college education, don't like manual labor, and have a thick skin, it's one of your best job options.

Let's see now. Geoghan committed a heinous series of crimes. There were a lot of people who directly affected by those crimes and many more who feel justice was not served by giving him the death penalty. If any of those people had connections to state government or penal system, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that arrangements could be made for a security lapse to occur? I strongly believe this was the case in the death of convicted cop-killer (and PCU inmate) Robert "Mudman" Simon in NJ a few years ago. Cop killers are the most despised type of inmate amongst law enforcement officials. Mudman was a white-supremacist biker and he was placed in a PCU cell with a psychotic African-American murderist rapist serving multiple life sentences. The infamous Jeffrey Dahmer's prison death fits this same paradigm as well. I'm sure ACLU could provide similar examples from elesewhere in the country. In all cases, the murderer was someone who was serving one or more life sentences without parole for murder, and the victim was someone categorically despised by society. It is tempting to say "true justice was served" when things like Geoghan's death happen. But shouldn't we be concerned when others attempt to impose their own brand of justice on us?

Am I just another alarmist with a conspiracy theory? Maybe, but sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.

	27-08-2003 22:04									#75
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quote: Do you need a person to think about it before it can exist?

Good

No. However, sin requires someone to be sinned against. Therefore, if one can still sin when no other person sees or knows about what you do, sin must then be against God.

So how then can sin exist without God, sava, since God determines what counts as sin?

	28-08-2003 05:36									#76
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Shanked means stabbed. He was not shanked. He was strangled, technically, garroted.

	28-08-2003 09:39									#77
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quote: So how then can sin exist without God, sava, since God determines what counts as sin?

that's BS obiwan... if God were to say "murder is okay" it would still be a sin...

	28-08-2003 10:09									#78
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No, it wouldn't.

	28-08-2003 10:14									#79
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quote: No, it wouldn't.

Well, we have a mind to use it, abuse it, or lose it... so you can use your mind to tell right from wrong... you can abuse it by being an evil ****... or you can lose it by being a mindless faithful follower...

the words of my deeply religious grandmother, god rest her soul...

If God says to me... "Sava, it's not a sin to murder people"... I look him in the face and say, "You're wrong d1ckhead!"

	28-08-2003 10:23									#80
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Sometimes you folks scare me. Regardless of what he did to the kids, this is still a human being we're talking about, and he certainly was in no capacity to hurt any more kids in prison.

	28-08-2003 11:11									#81
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Didn't one of you guys also suggest a stint in prison for Ahhnald Schvarzenegger?

	28-08-2003 13:59									#82
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quote: that's BS obiwan... if God were to say "murder is okay" it would still be a sin...

You speak very well sava. I did not expect that response.

How do you you know what counts as sin and what does not? Where does this sense come from?

Secondly, would God issue such a command to allow murder?

	28-08-2003 19:54									#83
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Secondly, would God issue such a command to allow murder?

He sure did in the beta (pre-Jesus) version.

	28-08-2003 20:17									#84
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Secondly, would God issue such a command to allow murder?

Well a certain president of certain states that are apparently united seems to think so.