26-08-2003 05:06									#31
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I just don't want the game stopped in the middle again.

	26-08-2003 05:52									#32
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Never fear, Ghengis. The problem in game 1 was the number of civs poll result - 24. We now have only 15 in total, so we will be FAR better off.

Personally, it is exactly a challenge that we want for this game. The start is interesting, and the initial settler placement is going to prove challenging. But we can build the Colossus right away, if we want. There's a potential bonus there, seeing as there would be no corruption (well, 4%) and loads of trade heavy coast tiles. We just need to get the food and shields for it!

	26-08-2003 06:16									#33
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Yes, it will be intersting to see if we move from that start spot or not. I'm dying to see what our scout would show us.

If the land wraps around (as in if that is a small lake we are on) then that start spot might not be so bad...

	26-08-2003 08:08									#34
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If we found the city on that spot, surely the AI will move to found theirs. I don't think they will found their capital with only one tile between it and another capital.

Wasn't the Aztec capital founded on a lake?

	26-08-2003 08:45									#35
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If we found the city on that spot, surely the AI will move to found theirs. I don't think they will found their capital with only one tile between it and another capital. Wasn't the Aztec capital founded on a lake?

Good point - the AI only founds cities that are at least two tiles away from the closest opponent culture radius.

IRL, Tenochtitlan was founded on a lake alright, and Mexico City is smack on top of the swamp around the lake, hence parts of it are sinking. Although, the Aztecs relied on tribute from beaten neighbours to keep their Empire functioning, so that's what we need to do - enslave some local populace or two...

	26-08-2003 08:48									#36
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Sounds like a plan.

Adapt and Overcome.

	26-08-2003 12:13									#37
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb you could simply state that not all the civs are this close. That's all I wanted to hear.

(hoping to end this)

Not all the civs are this close.

-- BFM

	26-08-2003 19:38									#38
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I don't know if this has been established or not, but I'd certainly vote that we either settle where we are, or move TWO squares, not one, as that shield resource will be vital.

	26-08-2003 20:34									#39
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I brought it up because it was a concern and I hoped for an assurance that all of the civs were not jammed within contact of one another like last time as they took a huge element of the game away. It was as issue brought up and I don't like the idea of playing this game for a month only to find we're going to end in the exact same situation.

Then don't play. I, for one, would applaud such a decision on your part. I doubt I'm the only one...

--Togas

	26-08-2003 22:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax I don't know if this has been established or not, but I'd certainly vote that we either settle where we are, or move TWO squares, not one, as that shield resource will be vital.

You get the shield resource anyway. Shield bonuses on a tile stay when you build a city there.

	27-08-2003 00:37									#41
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Looks good. I like it.

	27-08-2003 00:47									#42
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster (hoping to end this) Not all the civs are this close. -- BFM

All I wanted to know, at least your somewhat more mature about this than Togas.

	27-08-2003 02:02									#43
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I didn't see any "sea" tiles in this inland lake, just coast tiles.

This means it's a large fresh water lake, so no Colossus, but food really won't be an issue as far as growth.

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Never fear, Ghengis. The problem in game 1 was the number of civs poll result - 24. We now have only 15 in total, so we will be FAR better off. Personally, it is exactly a challenge that we want for this game. The start is interesting, and the initial settler placement is going to prove challenging. But we can build the Colossus right away, if we want. There's a potential bonus there, seeing as there would be no corruption (well, 4%) and loads of trade heavy coast tiles. We just need to get the food and shields for it!

	27-08-2003 02:03									#44
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I think the AI is pre-programmed to settle their capital in whatever tile their settler happens to be on unless it's starts in a tile where founding cities is out right illegal. (Mountains)

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If we found the city on that spot, surely the AI will move to found theirs. I don't think they will found their capital with only one tile between it and another capital. Wasn't the Aztec capital founded on a lake?

	27-08-2003 02:06									#45
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As far as I can tell:

Building city in shielded grassland = 3/1/1
Building city in unshielded grassland = 3/1/1

quote: Originally posted by skywalker You get the shield resource anyway. Shield bonuses on a tile stay when you build a city there.

	27-08-2003 02:46									#46
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I've always gotten the bonus.

	27-08-2003 03:30									#47
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ok, you keep the bonus when you settle on a shielded tile but you gain a shield when you settle on a non-shielded tile.

	27-08-2003 05:11									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 ok, you keep the bonus when you settle on a shielded tile but you gain a shield when you settle on a non-shielded tile.

Are there only three people in this DemoGame that have figured that out? Me thinks skywalker needs to get off his Banana Plantation a bit more often........

	27-08-2003 08:27									#49
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I suggest waiting for C3C to come out before starting the next SPDG.

There will be very little interest in this game once expansion arrives. I was planning to lurk here because I've never participated in a SPDG, but I just know this one is not going to last. But hey, if you guys are up for it, do not let me stop you.


Dominae

	27-08-2003 12:50									#50
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It'll be quite some time until enough people have bought C3C, and Firaxis has fixed the first bugs.

	27-08-2003 14:49									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 ok, you keep the bonus when you settle on a shielded tile but you gain a shield when you settle on a non-shielded tile.

And in some governments (or is it after certain size) you get the extra shield in the city square when built on the shielded title. I just cannot remember how it went. There was a thread about it somewhere, just cannot find it.

But to make the comparison a bit harder we should take into account the fact that once our capital grows, we'll be able to work more titles if we move 1 W.
(I tried to calculate the production/turn for the two sites but got myself ever so confused )
I would have make a fancy comparison table of the two sites... If I just knew how

To briefly summarize the production/turn when all tiles are improved we get for this site 1+2+1+2+1=7(8 if the wheat is bonus)
1 W would produce 1+6x1+2+1=10 (11 if the wheat is bonus + additional 1 shield for each hidden grassland being bonus)

So in the long term it seems it is better to move.

And as last but not least we are not industrious. It takes some time to build up the improvements that would bring in the shields.

To conclude this I still say move 1 tile West.

	27-08-2003 17:59									#52
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Are there only three people in this DemoGame that have figured that out? Me thinks skywalker needs to get off his Banana Plantation a bit more often........

No, a city over a shield bonus produces TWO shields. However, I didn't realize that this didn't happen in some governments.

	27-08-2003 18:39									#53
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IIRC one of those governments that you do not get the bonus is despotism so then it would be bad for starting? Anyways go ahead do whatever... probably does not matter a huge amount in the long run.

	27-08-2003 19:17									#54
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If we settle on the shielded square (worst case) we'd only have that one shield, and whatever the wheat provides (plus forest, which bunks growth).

Discuss.

	27-08-2003 19:25									#55
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Move the Scout, then decide what to do with the Settler.

If you found the city on the Bonus Grassland, you will not get the benefit of that extra Shield, at least during the period of the game where it matters most.


Dominae

	27-08-2003 20:31									#56
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Desoptism isn't the only period in which it's best to found on the grassland without shield:

During the GA, you get +1 shield in every tile already producing at least one already so having the shields spread out is beneficial.

Also should there be an Iron Works, it also produces +1 shield in every tile already producing at least one already. (Not an issue in this area)

	27-08-2003 21:04									#57
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster It'll be quite some time until enough people have bought C3C, and Firaxis has fixed the first bugs.

Besides interest has already dwindled. Waiting will just cause more dwindling. We must halt the dwindling or we will dwindle into an ever dwindling spiral of dwindling doom!

	28-08-2003 04:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Desoptism isn't the only period in which it's best to found on the grassland without shield: During the GA, you get +1 shield in every tile already producing at least one already so having the shields spread out is beneficial. Also should there be an Iron Works, it also produces +1 shield in every tile already producing at least one already. (Not an issue in this area)

Iron works just doubles total shield production.

	28-08-2003 10:28									#59
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This just in from the strategy forum:

If we settle on the shield grass we'll get the production bonus in our city square when city size reaches 7 and we must be out of despotism.

So unless there are more shielded grasslands hiding under the fog I think we should build our city right here.

	29-08-2003 04:58									#60
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Build the scity at the start position. With the border expansion you will have good food production (Wheat and Fish) your priority will be maximizing shield production.