25-08-2003 05:02									#1
	PWS non-lethal crowd control Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, I just watched Jackass The Movie once again (I love partyboy in Tokyo!, and the car in the butt!).

Knoxville was testing once again some self defense equipment, this time taking a shot form 12 gauge shotgun loaded with non, or to be more correct, less lethal ammunition. I believe it was a small bag of something, maybe little rubber balls? Anyway, it was pretty sick

Is this kind of business big in the US? I figure it could be... I'm just looking for new venues for my Punisher Weapon Systems, and I have few less lethal things in my mind, I believe they are not used in riot control but they'd be good. So my question was and is, is this kind of business big in the US? Here it is almost non existent, all cops really use are batons (rare!) and water gun, working almost like shotgun, shooting 1 liter of water HARD, like water ammunition. You blast it few meters from the target, and it knocks you on your butt. It's quite safe to use, but it creates a nice impact. And collateral damage is not so big, because it's water so it can't hold it's form except few meters. And ammunition is cheap. And it hurts like hell. So I love it.

Last edited by Pekka on 25-08-2003 at 07:12

	25-08-2003 05:03									#2
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He was probably using a bean bag

And there is a big business here for that sort of thing

	25-08-2003 05:05									#3
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go put a telescope in your ass ted

	25-08-2003 05:06									#5
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Yeah a bean bag, that's right.

What kind of methods American cops usually use? Do they just use the traditional methods of grouping, having armours, arming with big batons and sprays, maybe some guns with rubber bullets? Or do you have any advanced methods used on regular basis?

Notice: these could be often used in other situations as well, like capturing unarmed but aggressive individuals etc.

I just thought that I should expand to inner problems as well, used to control and brake up hostile situation inside country, rather than only blasting folks in foreign countries. I figure I'm getting soft these days.

	25-08-2003 05:08									#6
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they tear gassed peaceful crowds in Seattle... but to be fair... there were a few idiots throwing rocks who provoked the cops...

	25-08-2003 05:08									#7
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And I see there's a little problem with rubber bullets and some methods. I see them as good devices, but at the same time they DO have potential to kill or cause bad injuries. My youth raisers would be less lethal, but they'd be effective the same.

	25-08-2003 05:10									#8
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Listen, I have the best weapo... excuse me, control device right here, I KNOW no one has it, or uses it. But it would be GREAT. You have a hostile group, braking into stores, rioting? With my KYS-weapon you will brake the crowd in NO TIME! Also known as Killing You Softly System. Name can be negotiated, it's just the project name.

as a matter a fact, I can guarantee it won't kill anyone directly, and the chance of losing a citizen rioter indirectly is small as well. As for people injuring, it's not likely it will injure anyone seriously, and it WILL teach a lesson and it WILL make rioters seriously thinking about stopping shouting 'hell no we won't go' and change it to 'officers I came to my senses, please, give us 5 seconds to get the hell out here'.

Last edited by Pekka on 25-08-2003 at 05:18

	25-08-2003 05:10									#9
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The cops on patrol mainly use mace and a baton

Some of them have bean bag shotguns in the trunk or in the front

	25-08-2003 05:13									#10
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Yeah, but the problem with batons are that you have to engage in close combat with the rioters and that is potentially dangerous even with horses and trained cops. So shotguns are good, you can use them at distance, but they are potentially dangerous. I have what you need .

	25-08-2003 05:14									#11
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the real money is in guns that shoot massive amounts of elephant ****! I might hate Bush, but I hate elephant **** more!

	25-08-2003 05:16									#12
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Also with things like different gasses and rubber bullets etc you can indirectly hurt, people with weak hearts are in danger etc.. but KYS systems will bring the chaos atmosphere to seriously get the hell out without these negative side effects. It's not brutal, or very violent. It hurts less than shotgun, and is safer, but it is guaranteed to literally make the crowd be sorry they ever started going nuts in demonstrations.

	25-08-2003 05:22									#13
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why don't we drop you and a baseball bat in the middle of the crowd and then you can do some serious crowd control

	25-08-2003 05:31									#14
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You are not far from the idea. I'll draw the basic idea.. just a sec..

	25-08-2003 05:38									#15
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Ok here is the first drawing, not very good but don't let that stop you from imaging it in action..

Attachment: kys1.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	25-08-2003 05:39									#16
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Pekka... that master of MS Paint!!!

	25-08-2003 05:40									#17
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Weed bombs: 'nuff said

	25-08-2003 05:42									#18
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The basic idea is that we can shoot these from launchers, these are not heavy or big (so if it hits you to the head, you're not likely to die from the damage).

You shoot this in the middle of the crowd, or where you want it. With accurate launchers you can be safe about it. Or if you want to re-live your youth, you can drop these babies from the roofs. It should stand in the right position as it lands. Then with RC-device, or a timer these babies will explode into the crowd, giving them rubber balls, or what ever we choose to use, HARD to the legs. We can direct this babys range, so the ammunition will not fly higher than we want, maybe 20 cm is good, just below the knee of average height man.

You can shoot these into the crowd as a deterrent to get the hell out or you'll just have to fire these babies. If you have to fire, you should do it at the same time to avoid people being on the ground when bullets fly, to avoid head injuries etc. THis is the basic idea.

	25-08-2003 05:43									#19
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Sava, sure, but that is not SO bad, is it?

	25-08-2003 05:43									#20
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Weed bombs: 'nuff said

that would encourage crowds to congregate...

	25-08-2003 05:44									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Sava, sure, but that is not SO bad, is it?

I don't want to violate 'Poly's insult rules

	25-08-2003 05:46									#22
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Weed bombs mean no-one gets hurt, everyone gets stoned and has a good time, protest can continue, no violence, and turns into a love fest!

Needless to say, I would certainly instigate a riot just to get stoned for free, but hey, we must take every opportunity to out dutch the dutch!

	25-08-2003 05:48									#23
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Pekka: Its a little indiscriminate with the whole pain thing? And lets be honest, A, it would hurt like hell, and B, its easily countered by shin pads.

A homogenous dose of THC on the other hand...

	25-08-2003 05:48									#24
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Pros: Cops are not in so much danger having to get in and use their batons, possibly injuring themselves, losing own equipment to the hostile crowd. Safe to the user.

Can be easily used, accurate system (short distances, not so hard to target).

Mostly shoots to the legs of rioters, not likely to brake any bones -> relatively safe.

Hurts, no one wants to stand next to one of these, so you can direct people where you want to. If they are stupid enough to not go away, they'll get a great lesson that their legs have to pay for.

Can be used as a deterrent. Shoot these babies in, we can work for some kind of locking system so people wont grab these beauties up. Maybe it'll zap you with electricity, I don't know have to work that one out. Now you haven't engaged or shot anyone, but they know it's on soon if they don't stop, and they don't stand a chance. In fact after this only few people will be able to stand.

Cons: If someone is on the ground, these can hit their heads. Should be avoided and used under strict observation of the situation.

	25-08-2003 05:50									#25
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elijah, hmm.. good thing you said about chin pads. But I reckon only few people will have them anyway. Also you can make this thing stand higher, so it'll shoot your thighs and chins. To have protective against that? Sure be a robocop and move like a prisoner after meeting with Bubba.

Listen, shotguns with rubber bullets can be stopped with bullet vests.. how many still uses them? I don't think this is a problem.

	25-08-2003 05:56									#26
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Pekka, many homes in the UK have pads, especially if someone plays football or rugby. I do, and once your weapons become public knowledge, people will take the obvious steps to counter them.

quote: Listen, shotguns with rubber bullets can be stopped with bullet vests.. how many still uses them?

The difference between shin pads and bullet vests is that every sports store sells pads.

	25-08-2003 05:59									#27
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This is for US markets anyway. I think something else for you, ok? I guess making gas form of Antabus drug will do the trick for you guys. It's drug against alcoholism, so if you drink alcohol, you won't experience the nice effects of alcohol, but you feel the bad effects, like nausea etc.
So I figure we shoot those into the crowds in UK .

	25-08-2003 06:08									#28
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Sounds like a plan!!

What about enormous nets dropped from helicopters? I always liked the idea of ensnaring the forces of the iron left in the reinforced fibreglass nets of established capitalist freedom oh wait I'm not longer evil in order to allow legitimate, non violent protesters to enjoy and exercise their fundamental democratic right of sticking it to their populist suit clad oppressors.

	25-08-2003 06:08									#29
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Another application of the KYS system. Like all PWS devices, they are very versatile.

Attachment: kys2.jpg
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	25-08-2003 06:10									#30
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Nothing wrong with water and/or tear gas, I think, as far as being non-lethal is concerned...