26-08-2003 09:11									#1
	Worst capital city ever? Remove this text

Ever seen a worse choice of capital city location than London?

Attachment: badcaptl.sav
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	26-08-2003 15:54									#2
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Can someone just post a screenie please?

	26-08-2003 17:07									#3
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Here ya go...

Are you sure you didn't cheat? Because those hills and mountains exactly follow the city radius.

Need less to say, I don't think I've seen worse.

Attachment: london.jpg
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	26-08-2003 17:17									#4
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The best part is the automatic defensive bonus any attacker will have against a city defender...

	26-08-2003 17:32									#5
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This smells a bit fishy to me. I remember the thread in which someone (apologies ) explained that it was possible to force the AI to build two adjacent cities because of the way its cities are planned. There is no chance that the AI would ever build a city on a square with so little growth potential. A dumb human player might, but the AI would rather wander for many years than just found straight off with so little food potential.

	26-08-2003 18:14									#6
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Looks fishy...

	26-08-2003 20:20									#7
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I cant tell on this monitor: any Gold in those Mountains? You'd think they'd at least mine the coal.

Funny too how the Plains next to Oxford and Newcastle are unimproved, but those two tiles away are roaded and irrigated. And what was the point of roading the Plains south of the Pheasant? Wishful thinking?

	26-08-2003 23:44									#8
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Not too mention the perfectionist placement of Canterbury & Nottingham.

	27-08-2003 01:11									#9
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Hm. One of the things I hate is placing cities next to the shore when I still have no fleet to check if there are nay resources just a bit away... or placing cities in the first turns
and later it turns out there's water one point away...

	27-08-2003 16:43									#10
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For the offshore resources problem, then use the Gits' hutfinding program, and in order to settle in the best spot then you can only explore better before founding.

	27-08-2003 17:17									#11
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Yes, this look a bit strange. I've seen the AI wander for centuries when in the hills or mountains, but I've never seen them settle a location like this.

	28-08-2003 15:26									#12
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I'm with the fishy crew ...

SG[1]

	28-08-2003 21:01									#13
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I've seen AI settle on bad land before but this is just plain stupid.

	29-08-2003 03:52									#14
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hello debeest!
welcome back
do you mean you are playing the English?

	29-08-2003 05:01									#15
	Re: Worst capital city ever? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by debeest Ever seen a worse choice of capital city location than London?

Speaking strictly IRL, it's obvious you haven't been to Ottawa in the winter

	29-08-2003 14:41									#16
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At least Ottawa has Forests and a River.



Seems odd that the AI would build a city. Don't they have a limit in terms of food production? Too low a radius, and the AI will simply keep looking?

	29-08-2003 18:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Seems odd that the AI would build a city. Don't they have a limit in terms of food production? Too low a radius, and the AI will simply keep looking?

The only thing I can think of is that someone terraformed plains/grass into hills, trying to shrink London down to size. I can't imagine the AI building there 'normally', for the reasons you stated.

Can't terraform anything into mountains, tho.

	29-08-2003 18:25									#18
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Well how's about someone stuck on the cheat mode and then changed all the terrain around London?
Mercator, and anyone else who's opened the file, was cheat mode on, or was it saved as a scenario?

That's the most obvious answer for me although this is speaking as someone who can't download the game to look. Otherwise then I'd still suspect that this is shonky and maybe someone has come up with a clever way to hide/remove the cheat mode indicator.

	29-08-2003 19:54									#19
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Haven't actually tried this, but how about enter cheat mode - wreck terrain - save as scenario - start scenario and save game - would that not effectively 'fix' the cheat mode?

SG[1]

	29-08-2003 20:06									#20
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I couldn't possibly comment.
I would never dream of using a "cheat mode" and was not even aware one existed until somebody mentioned it above.

	29-08-2003 22:51									#21
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I'm shocked -- shocked!! -- that so many of you think I would just make this thing up. Have I ever lied to you before? I thought you guys were my friends!

I promise you, the only thing fishy here is the actual programming of the game itself. Remember, this is the AI we're talking about. There's no need to make stuff up....

The only thing I have to be ashamed of is that it's 1828 and I still haven't eradicated a civilization that makes choices like this.

And no, Lafayette, I'm not playing the English. Harumphhhhh!! If I were, I would have to quote Jim Carrey from "Liar, Liar" and say "I'm kickin' my ass!! Do you mind!?"

No, Elephant, there isn't even any gold in the mountains.

>> Funny too how the Plains next to Oxford and Newcastle are unimproved, but those two tiles away are roaded and irrigated. And what was the point of roading the Plains south of the Pheasant? Wishful thinking?

Yeah. At first I thought that maybe the map of the plains next to Oxford and Newcastle was out of date, while the roaded square south of the pheasant had been more recently viewed. But I have earlier saves, and that's really the way the AI did it.

STYOM -- no one's been terraforming. Other civs have engineering, but I don't think I've seen anything but settlers from them yet. And a cheat-look at my save from 1 AD shows the same geography.

>> it's obvious you haven't been to Ottawa in the winter

Heh heh! True. Bern, the real-world capital of Switzerland, may have been more like this one, but they really didn't have a lot of options.

Duke o' York -- howzcum you can't download the save? I thought downloading a game from Poly was easy to do nowadays.

	29-08-2003 23:04									#22
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OK debeest - my apologies -- I should have looked at who had posted this mess - no rep hit intended.

I can confirm that cheat mode is not on.

for my money the road south of the pheasant is a city site that got mashed (by barbs?)

can you go back to earlier saves and chart the 'development' of the English???

SG[1] - contrite

	30-08-2003 01:14									#23
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This is very typical of the way the AI builds.This very "beleivable".I've seen worse.It is probably the AI's biggest shortcoming:city placement

	30-08-2003 22:43									#24
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quote: Have I ever lied to you before? I thought you guys were my friends!

We are more interested in figuring out why the AI would build a city with nothing but mountains and hills in the city radius. For the reasons I cited, this placement is very unlikely.

That's the only reason why people are asking for more proof, not because they think you are lying, but because this behavior seems so strange.

	31-08-2003 04:37									#25
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Agreed. No offense intended.

	01-09-2003 22:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Otherwise then I'd still suspect that this is shonky and maybe someone has come up with a clever way to hide/remove the cheat mode indicator.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Haven't actually tried this, but how about enter cheat mode - wreck terrain - save as scenario - start scenario and save game - would that not effectively 'fix' the cheat mode?

No that wouldn't fix it, because your highscore would say "SCENARIO".

And that would all be a little bit too much trouble to start a thread over...

I'm not at all surprised the AI built a city there either, just that the shape of the mountains/hills follows the radius closely. But I guess that must be a nice map generator fluke.

Do you have a save from the first turn, debeest? Do you know if the English started in that square or somewhere else?

	02-09-2003 07:36									#27
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Scouse, I've got some saves, but they don't reveal a whole lot in the way of "development." What you see here is pretty much what you got all game.

I don't have a first-turn save; I think my earliest save may be 1 AD. London is there at that point.

I hope no one seriously thought I was offended by all your skepticism. The first line of my last post ("shocked -- shocked!!") is a swipe from a humorous line in the movie Casablanca, and it was supposed to tip you all off that I was writing tongue-in-cheek. I'm not so sensitive as to take offense at a natural skepticism. Apparently I'm not so amusing that I should try to be droll by email, though.

	02-09-2003 09:26									#28
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"In my day we'd be happy to have a site with nothing but mountains. We lived in a puddle in the road and had to eat cold gravel for breakfast… Tell that to kids nowadays and they won't believe you."

Try this OCC from a year ago

Attachment: me-35.sav
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	02-09-2003 09:31									#29
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Take a look:

Attachment: whatwereyouthinking.jpg
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	02-09-2003 14:04									#30
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Sorry debeest, but I can't download the game because I'm at work. I went to great trouble to download the OCC for last month and didn't get anywhere with that.