26-08-2003 09:15									#1
	AU209 DAR2: Map out home continent. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

As you can see, we're doing something different with the timeline for the DARs in this course. This is to avoid any potential spoiler information.

So, please only comment on your game from turn 2150BC (the end of DAR1) up until you know the geography of the entire home continent (more or less).

Last edited by Dominae on 03-09-2003 at 07:52

	26-08-2003 12:10									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Allright, my game is on diety, would've posted this earlier, but I wasn't sure if I've met everyone on my continent.

1750BC
17 turns away from discovering writing, but I decided to aquire it from Carthage for 3gpt and 143gold

I then traded with Japan:
got the wheel, warrior code, ceremonial burial with
writing, 4gpt and 8gold

I then started Literature at 10%

1500BC
Carthage demanded 22 gold, gave in, will get my money back + interest when I'm ready.

1325BC
Traded with Ottomans. Got map making in exchange for my world map, 9gpt and 110 gold

Then traded with Japan, got their world map, mysticism for
map making, world map, 2gpt and 10 gold

Traded with Carthage, got their world map and 13 gold for my world map

At this point, it was clear that I've made contact with everyone on my continent.

Looks like Ottomans and Japan will be tougher nuts to crack than Carthage since Carthage is knee deep in jungle. Hopefully their faster workers will clear most of it away for me.

I currently have 5 pathetic cities with a 6th one on the way, not much in terms of military. 5 warriors and 4 workers. I'm 23 turns away from Literature, and I'm pretty sure someone else will research it before me, so I'm not going to try for the GL.

England has built Colossus and Oracle, The Ottomans have pyrmids. The great wall and lighthouse are being constructed by various civs as well.

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	27-08-2003 01:32									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well my game crashed so I thought I'd put the save in here...

basically I'm was heading for a sword attack against Carthage ( )

edit: btw, I got a free city from a hut N of Carthage so it looked to be a good game

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	27-08-2003 06:09									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

woo hoo! I made it not crash by doing some stuff differently from an earlier save! Of couse this would normally be construed as cheating because it improved my position slightly (scout alive and a turn of civil disorder in a couple cities) but we can make an exception in this case right?

See the DAR 3 thread for an update as I can build FP now.

	27-08-2003 09:30									#5
	Support Apolyton

1870 BC: Made contact with the Ottomans. I was not in a position to have anything they needed for trade, so they remain annoyed.

At some point later the Ottomans make a demand for gold and maps. I tell them to take hike. At this point they concede, albeit with much grumbling.

690 BC. An under strength Ottoman army (warriors, one archer) tries to take Minsk. Each of their units is defeated. They continue to trickle into my territory, easily taken down by swordsmen.

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	27-08-2003 09:47									#6
	Remove this text

550 BC. Decent luck. As I am considering an alliance, Carthage declares war on the Ottomans.

210 B.C. Japan signs a military alliance with Carthage against the Ottomans. I take advantage of the Ottoman’s distraction and sail a single galley loaded with two swordsmen toward their territory.

150 B.C. I take Adana from the Ottomans, and gain to workers in the process, which I quickly load up and sail back to safe passage.

110 BC. The Ottomans come to the table for a peace deal. I negotiate a fairly weak offer, but am glad for it, as I was not yet prepared for a prolonged war. I use this opportunity to settle city number 8, Savastopol on the western shore of this horse shoe shaped continent next to Adana. I am sailing spear and swordsman for fortification.

My priorities at this point are to keep a decent minimal defense force and get libraries up in cities - - my culture is abysmal at this point - and build the forbidden palace (I will place it in one of the two new cities once they are properly secured) Achieving this, hopefully, I can build a decent force and begin the business of continent clearing.

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	31-08-2003 01:21									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I achieved contact with all home continent AI civs in 2150 BC.

Playing on... it's ugly, but has potential.

	31-08-2003 01:45									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yep, in some games the landmarks for DAR1 and DAR2 will be rather close together. That's what happens when you do not playtest!


Dominae

	01-09-2003 20:41									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I seem to have lost the paper I wrote key dates down on, so I'm going to give talk in more generic terms, particularly about the early game. Playing at Emperor level.

Going in, I assumed that I'd be boxed in by a civ with an early era UU and that the Ottomans would be on my continent. (Dominae, your reputation as a creator of brutal scenarios precedes you!) I was thus not very surprised when I met Hannibal. We did some early trading, and I got a pair of settlers down near his border as quickly as I could to cut off his growth. Production was a really slow and painful process, as I'm used to playing industrious civs.

Having Carthage as my only neighbor made my usual archer rush pointless, as I would end up fighting a civ in its GA cranking out superior units. Just as well, with my pitiful production, I had all of about 8 mil units. Met the Japanese not long after meeting Carthage, and did some more tech trading with them. Scientifically, I was still weak, but neither Japan nor Carthage was pursuing the Ceremonial Burial strand of research, so I set my slider to 40 turns and started hording money.

Only military action in the ancient era for me was a stupid Japanese war. The fool demanded some outrageous sum, I told him to what he could do with his demand, and he declared, sending an armada of 3 warriors and an archer. Even my pathetic mil could handle it. About a dozen or so turns later, we reached a peace treaty. At that time, I probably had 6 cities, with a couple of settlers being built.

In another dozen turns or so, I met the Ottomans, who will prove a problem. Gee, surprise, surprise.... they have absurdly easy access to horses. I can't help but wonder if saltpeter will also be in as easy abundance for them?

Seeing the setup of the continent, I faced my first strategic dilemma. Should I go ahead and fight Carthage, which would be easier logistically, but would mean a certainty of facing Siphai later in the game; OR should I try to seize a few Ottoman cities now in an effort to prune them back and weaken them before they become too powerful?

	05-09-2003 07:39									#10
	The Joy Of Expansion Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Continued on from DAR1. I’m playing emperor level.

1,870bc:
The great nation of Russia has reached forth its hand to pluck knowledge from the depths of the jungle itself. These people live in straw huts, but build great works of architecture far from prying eyes.

In the vast expanse of jungle north of Carthage I came upon my last hut and popped masonry. Four total huts for an expansionist civ. An early settler would have been nice (certainly nicer than the warrior), but I made up for it with one single thing…

1,790bc:
Wonderful news again your majesty. Our far ranging scout has once again discovered a new civilization known as the Ottomans. They appear to be well-known for their furniture.

Sometimes the civ gods smile brightly upon you and sometimes they don’t. This time they smiled brightly on me. When I contacted the Ottomans, warriors from both Carthage and Japan we’re about two tiles behind me. Only the scout’s two moves per turn had allowed me to catch up with and pass them both for first contact. With that contact and 5 gold I was able to trade for alphabet and mysticism with Carthage. I traded alphabet and 5 gold to the Ottomans for the rest of iron working and discovered iron close to me. Finally I traded contact with the Ottomans and 20 gold to the Japanese for the wheel, only to discover there was not a single horse around me (and one right next to the Ottoman capitol and one close to the Japanese capitol…thanks Dominae). The expansionist trait proved its worth as without it I would never have gotten contact with the Ottomans before the other two civs. I was able to parlay that contact (despite how close the other civs were to contacting the Ottomans themselves) and 30 gold into 4 techs bringing me (briefly) up to parity with the Ottomans. The Japanese and Carthaginians still had writing, which they wouldn’t give up. I decided to start researching polytheism at 40 turns and a new idea sprung into my head to replace my original thoughts of an early archer rush.

This DAR is quite a bit shorter than the first one and I unfortunately don’t have any screen shots. I was excited about my tech trading deals and didn’t take any shots. At first I didn’t realize that I had contacted all the civs on this continent because there was still a mid-size area SE of Carthage I hadn’t explored yet, and I wasn’t able to go through Japanese lands. It wasn’t until a bit later that I realized these three civs were it.

More to come later…in a bit. Like I said in another thread I'm up to being able to post in DAR4 but I haven't written that much. I'm trying to post a bit of why I did what I did rather than just how.

	05-09-2003 08:39									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Great DARs so far, Rhothaerill (and I love the sig!).

I especially enjoyed/liked your comments about Expansionist. Although it is not uncommon to get a free Settler and/or many techs when playing Expansionist, I feel that on average the main advantage of the trait is the early information that you get. This takes the form of knowing the location of all the resources, the shape of the land mass, the civs on your home continent, etc. etc. In and of itself this information is sometimes very valuable (as in this scenario, I think). If this were not enough, you often get a good shot at being the tech broker because you're the first to meet neighboring civs (a form of "information"). As you described, it is possible to translate this into a couple of techs which, although you did not pop them from Goody Huts, are very much a product of playing Expansionist.


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 05-09-2003 at 12:15

	05-09-2003 11:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks Dom. I suppose I'm trying to get the point across that Apolyton University is for teaching as well as learning. I'm far from being the best civ player around, but I've been trying to discuss my strategies and reasons in depth to hopefully give lurkers ideas. That is after all how I started at Apolyton...lurking and reading the strategy threads you and Vel and Theseus and Arrian and the rest started.

I hit on the idea of having my sig be advertising for AU. Maybe it'll help get some more people over here and playing.

BTW, take a look at my new entry for DAR3. It was long enough I had to split into two posts or no one would read it. DAR4 will be even worse. I'm projecting it will be long enough for four to five posts at least.

	10-09-2003 21:10									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

2110BC: researched Mysticism, going for Polytheism in 40 turns now. The AI seems to have traded Myst around this very turn, so i have nothing to trade for IW now. However, it is rather cheap, so i bought it from Japan for 140g (Carth wanted only 130, but i want to improve my relationship with Japan). There is no iron in the area near me i've covered so far.

2070BC: settler in Moscow completed, worker moves on the gold hill, when i see the wheat i send the settler there too.

1990BC: Barbs reduce Moscow from size 2 to 1.

1910BC: Kiev founded on the forest next to the northern wheat. I can see the third hut up there now, will pop it soon with a warrior i think. Kiev will build a warrior, then a worker, and a temple to get the iron into my borders.

1790BC: the Ottomans demand 22g. I give them what they want, but make a note...

1750BC: Japan demands 21g. Again, i give in. Took the barb camp on the northern mountains that made me some trouble.

1675BC: Writing from Ottomans for 75g, 4gpt. Everyone already has it.

1625BC: Minsk founded on the jungle tile on the east coast.

1550BC: Smolensk founded 1-1-4 of St. Petersburg. All new settlers will go as far south as possible, to stop Carth from getting further up to me.

1275BC: not long ago someone must have discovered cartography and traded it around. For a total of roughly 140g i got everyones worldmap without giving away mine - i don't want Carth to send those settlers up here. Polytheism in 12 turns, hopefully i'll be first to get it. Philosophy has already been discovered as well, i have neither Phil nor Carthography by now.
Ottomans and Japanese have 7 cities, Carth has 8, i'm at 5 with 2 settlers near their destinations and another being built.

the 2 red dots in the lower part of my territory are the settlers - one on his way to the warrior on the hill, the other to the hill between Hippo and Minsk - those two will prevent the Carth from expanding further in my direction. The last one will be founded somewhere in the jungle, i'm not sure yet, maybe i'll squeeze 2 in there.
As you can see i have started building barracks, for a war against Carth. The distant goal will be to take Carthage and everything east of it, and build the FP in Carthage.

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	12-09-2003 13:08									#14
	Tired of ads?

DAR 2: 2150 BC – contact with other civs on the continent

1790 BC saw our first (provisory) mine built on an arid patch of land north of the Don. A roving band of Gepid barbarians who tried to steal our cattle and women was easily defeated by our valiant stone-age warriors.
1725 BC brought us contacts with a tribe even further away that the Carts, called the Japs (well, Japan). In a flurry of exchanges, we bought Masonry for 90 gold from the Japs and the Wheel and Writing from the Carts for 90 gold and 90 gold plus 5/turn.
The Japs and the Carts had still iron Working and Horseback Riding.

In 1600 BC, travelers brought word that the English had built the Colossus. Fine.
The same year, contact was made with the Ottomans, still farther west than the Carts and Japs. We bought Horseback Riding for Alphabet and 15 gold.
Now, the carts had 6 cities, the Japs 5, Otto 7 and glorious Russia 2. Catherine announced 1 week of public mourning.

MS notes:
Russia was falling behind in techs and in number of cities. I decided to start researching some ‘exotic’ techs like Polytheism at to speed (usually 40 turns), sell them asap, then stop researching and buy some more, then research again some other ‘exotic’ tech. As for the number of cities, I had trouble cranking out Settlers fast enough: Erin food 8/turn and 3 shields, or food 8/turn, production 4 shields. More Workers were needed. And Granaries before more Settlers.

The situation in 1575 BC. The Worker north just finished a road, it will then road the mountain tile east of it (he stupidly skipped it).Why, as soon as Carthage will have galleys, they will try to drop a settler north. Roads gives mine more speed...

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