26-08-2003 11:12									#1
	Mexican "Justice" Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: BROWN: Four years ago tomorrow, a devoted father name Carlos Vara was shot and killed by his son-in-law at his home in suburban Los Angeles. Tonight, for all we know, he's sitting free watching this program on TV in Mexico. Police both here and there know where he is. He need not fear them. And he is not alone. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): It was late on a spring afternoon four years ago, not far from this gas station just south of downtown Los Angeles. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) OPERATOR: 911. ANNABELLA VARA, VICTIM: Yes. I need help. OPERATOR: Where are you? VARA: I'm on the street. I'm driving behind my husband. And he has a gun. (END AUDIO CLIP) BROWN: Annabella Perez was in her car following her husband, Daniel. But from her cell phone, she told police, he suddenly maneuvered in back of her. ANNABELLA VARA, VICTIM: He's banging my car. He's on the side of me trying to run me off the road. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) OPERATOR: Where are you, ma'am? VARA: Please hurry. Oh, my God. Hurry. Hurry. (END AUDIO CLIP) BROWN: That 911 call was transferred to three different police agencies. And by the time squad cars from Southgate Police arrived at the gas station, Daniel Perez, they say, had shot his wife in the head, leaving her for dead. It was three hours later when police finally found him. JAN MAURIZI, ASST. DA, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: Daniel Perez was arrested. And he was charged with the attempted murder on Annabella. And the case went through the normal procedures, preliminary hearing. It went to trial rather quickly. BROWN: The day before closing arguments, Annabella's father, Carlos Vara, testified that Daniel had telephoned him after the shooting, trying to establish an alibi that would exonerate him. That very night, police say, Daniel Perez came to his shot and shot Annabella's father to death. VARA: Daniel entered the house. And my dad pretty much confronted him. And he took like seven bullets, I believe. I'm not sure, but one to the head. That is what killed him. And he died instantly. BROWN: The next day, Daniel Perez was convicted in absentia of attempted murder of Annabella and sentenced to life in prison. He was then charged with the murder of Carlos Vara, but he had fled. Police are convinced he went to Mexico to a village north of Mexico City. MAURIZI: There is no justice for Annabella right now. It's a perfect example of what happens when you have a double system of justice. BROWN: A double system because, even though Mexican authorities know where Daniel Perez is living and even though American authorities know as well, he cannot be extradited. Mexican law prevents it because Daniel Perez was convicted in absentia and is subject to the death penalty in the United States because of the murder of Carlos Vara. MAURIZI: At this point in time, we are completely unable to secure his return, to get him back here, so that he can serve the sentence that he was given, so that he can stand trial for the murder of Annabella's father. BROWN: And if you think this case is unique, would you be wrong. MAURIZI: I know of, just in L.A. County, 150 cases where the fugitives have fled to Mexico, where we have verified that they're in Mexico and actually warrants have been issued for their arrest in Mexico. That doesn't account for what could be thousands of other cases where warrants have been issued and we don't know where those fugitives are. BROWN: Mexican officials say nothing will change unless life-in- prison sentences are changed and the death penalty is taken off the table. As an alternative, the Mexican government has offered trials in Mexican courts, maximum sentence, 60 years. For Annabella Vara, that's not enough. VARA: It's a bigger picture now. It's not just my case. It is changing something that will benefit all of us. So I'm willing to fight for that and for my dad. I know that, if it would have been me that day on April 9, my dad would be sitting here.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/25/asb.00.html

	26-08-2003 11:14									#2
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Everyone knows the MExican Justice system is messed up.

	26-08-2003 11:16									#3
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How many divisions would we need to conquer Mexico?

	26-08-2003 11:17									#4
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No need just buy the army

that's how it works there

	26-08-2003 11:18									#5
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Hell, they've already conquored east LA.

	26-08-2003 11:20									#6
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Send that bounty hunter in to whack him upside the head and drag him back to LA.

	26-08-2003 11:21									#7
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quote: Four years ago tomorrow, a devoted father name Carlos Vara was shot and killed by his son-in-law at his home in suburban Los Angeles. Tonight, for all we know, he's sitting free watching this program on TV in Mexico.

The way this sentence is constructed amuses me. Had to read it a number of times before it made sense.

But good for the Mexicans. Just as America wouldn't (I hope) extradite someone to a country where they would face torture, so it's praiseworthy of Mexico to stand up for what it believes in. If this victim's family thinks sixty years in prison (Mexican prison, no less!) isn't enough for the murderer, then they have their own problems.

	26-08-2003 11:25									#8
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Most countries which don't have the death penalty refuse to extradite people to the US if they are facing the death penalty. Mexico is no different in this regard from Canada or France or Germany or Great Britain.

	26-08-2003 11:29									#9
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"Mexican officials say nothing will change unless life-in- prison sentences are changed and the death penalty is taken off the table.

As an alternative, the Mexican government has offered trials in Mexican courts, maximum sentence, 60 years."

And this is a problem of Mexico's legal system how?

	26-08-2003 11:39									#10
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I wonder which is worse.. 60 years in Mexican prison being a punk and not some kind of drug lord, or life in US jail, or even DP?

but sure this is common practice.. we don't extradite our own people very easily to any country. We wouldn't give our citizens to stand in trial in another country where death penalty is an option. I think most countries without DP do this. Naturally problems come in the US, when they know they can just go for the border and be free... so that's a problem for sure. I don't have anything to say to this, except that I don't think this is a problem in Mexican justice, it is common everywhere.

	26-08-2003 11:41									#11
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You think you won't be a punk in a US jail?

Anyway, Mexican jails are worse. US prisons tend to be more sanitary.

	26-08-2003 11:44									#12
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IIRC, the Mexican constitution forbids extradition of anyone subject to the DP, although it may just be Federal law.

Given that all California would do with him is sentence to LWOP in a death row cell, until some governor acknowledges the political reality that Calfornia ain't gonna ever tolerate out-Texasing Texas and commutes the majority of the DP cases sitting, it's rather dumbassed to insist for political purposes on an extradition request that you know is forbidden as a matter of law.

Especially when the alternative is 60 years in a Mexican prison.

Oh, and how about US refusing Mexico's extradition request for that drunk jarhead mother****er from a few years ago that pulled a hit and run driving over 70 mph in a residential zone, killing four teenage kids and crippling two more? The US wasn't really interested in that extradition request, so why should Mexico give a **** about yours? What comes around goes around.

Maybe the gringos need to get over the notion that the rest of the world should simply bow and scrape at your convenience.

	26-08-2003 11:44									#13
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No? My point was that I think Mexican jails are even worse, and because you're not some kind of drug lord, you don't get any special treatment from the staff. I wasn't speaking about other inmates.

	26-08-2003 11:48									#14
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Maybe the gringos need to get over the notion that the rest of the world should simply bow and scrape at your convenience.

And maybe Mexico can borrow money from someone else when they're government is bankrupt next time. I figure going backrupt and having whitey bail them out twice in 25 years is enough.

You want money from sugar daddy? Then you have to keep sugar daddy happy.

	26-08-2003 11:50									#15
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You just bailed out your own banks.

	26-08-2003 11:51									#16
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Hey, don't piss of the law enforcment! otherwise they'll stop pushing coke to US, and you know what that means.. executives getting antsy, this is economical question as well!

	26-08-2003 11:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin And maybe Mexico can borrow money from someone else when they're government is bankrupt next time. I figure going backrupt and having whitey bail them out twice in 25 years is enough. You want money from sugar daddy? Then you have to keep sugar daddy happy.

Pick your own lettuce and clean your own toilets then.
Why not just get rid of unemployment in the sun belt and get some yuppie gringo ass working out in those fields for less money? Get lots of sun, and back to nature, and get paid for it at the same time. What a deal, huh?

Not to mention paying more for all the manufactured products we make for you.

And the bailout came from IMF, due to the effect Mexico's currency crisis had on foreign capital markets. Zedillo paid IMF off in full before he left office, so try again.

	26-08-2003 11:57									#18
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler You just bailed out your own banks.

The first time (in the 1980s) the Bank of America was on the hook but the second time (in the 1990s) the InterAmericas Development Bank (a quasi government/ nonprofit like the World Bank) was the largest creditor.

The thing I remember most from the second Mexican default were the US bailed them out was the politicians were saying we had to loan Mexico the money or a flood of illegals would rush into the US as MExico slipped in to depression.

	26-08-2003 11:58									#19
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See, we give you an excuse for corporate pork, as well.

	26-08-2003 19:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Maybe the gringos need to get over the notion that the rest of the world should simply bow and scrape at your convenience.

Why? You send people over the border for that express purpose.

	26-08-2003 19:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Most countries which don't have the death penalty refuse to extradite people to the US if they are facing the death penalty. Mexico is no different in this regard from Canada.

AFAIK, we have no such official policy. However, the US generally does not force our hand in creating such a policy by executing those who we extradite there.

Right now extraditions are decided on a case by case basis by some sort of judicial hearing. The decision whether or not to extradite is based on: sufficient cause (proof that he did it), assurance that he will receive a fair trial, and assurance that he will not be subjected to inhumane treatment. Whether or not our courts will decide that the death penalty is inhumane enough to stop us from extraditing an accused murderer is still an open question, AFAIK.

	26-08-2003 19:30									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Oh, and how about US refusing Mexico's extradition request for that drunk jarhead mother****er from a few years ago that pulled a hit and run driving over 70 mph in a residential zone, killing four teenage kids and crippling two more? The US wasn't really interested in that extradition request, so why should Mexico give a **** about yours? What comes around goes around.

Does the US just never extradite any of its military personnel? It seems that way...

	26-08-2003 19:46									#23
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse AFAIK, we have no such official policy. However, the US generally does not force our hand in creating such a policy by executing those who we extradite there.

For Europe, the ECHR has ruled in the Soering case that the US death penalty practice can amount to inhuman and degrading treatment. That would allow for a case by case assessment, but most countries have included clauses into law that explicitly prohibit extradition or deportation to countries where the death penalty may be imposed. It should also be part of the EU law in that area. If the US wants someone extradited, all they have to do is assure not to seek the death penalty.

A murky area is life without parole and the deficiencies regarding fair trial. That has yet to be settled.

	26-08-2003 20:14									#24
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Does Mexico has the death penalty?

	26-08-2003 20:22									#25
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	26-08-2003 20:30									#26
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Does the US just never extradite any of its military personnel? It seems that way...

IIRC, it has happened a very few times, but the normal situation is the US investigating or trying it's personnel rather than allowing host countries to do so, when those personnel are based on US facilities in the home country.

In this case, the guy was off duty, was heading back drunk, ran over the kids (dragging one for a block, with another one on his windshield until his body rolled off when the ******* made a turn), then head for the border crossing and crashed a gate to get into the US.

Even though he was "obviously guilty" so that even Johnny Cochrane couldn't get him off, the US pulled the "fair trial" BS and refused to extradite, also doing the "offer" of a military trial.

So it's funny when the US *****es about the same thing done in reverse.

	26-08-2003 20:51									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat And the bailout came from IMF, due to the effect Mexico's currency crisis had on foreign capital markets. Zedillo paid IMF off in full before he left office, so try again.

I am 99% sure the money came from the US. I remember Time Magazine had a big article on how Congress passed a bill authorizing the money and they had the Indian Financial Minister saying how lucky Mexico was to be so close to the US that the US had to act as a lender of lasdt resort.

	26-08-2003 20:54									#28
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Wouldn't the US congress have to approve the extra money the IMF needed to cover the loan (as would all the other member states)?

	26-08-2003 20:59									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I am 99% sure the money came from the US. I remember Time Magazine had a big article on how Congress passed a bill authorizing the money and they had the Indian Financial Minister saying how lucky Mexico was to be so close to the US that the US had to act as a lender of lasdt resort.

I think the mechanism with US money was that the US (a la Chrysler, and the S&L bailout, and the BNL "agriculture" loans to Iraq) acted as a guarantor of bank loans, but in this case, the loans had already been made by US banks.

One of Ernesto Zedillo's last official acts as President in the year 2000 was to retire 2.7 billion in remaining IMF debt.

	26-08-2003 21:02									#30
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Does the US just never extradite any of its military personnel? It seems that way...

It depends if the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) specifies if US personel get tried under local or American law. Up until the late 1980's any US service men in Japan who commits a crime gets tried by the US. This was changed though because there were several high profile cases of Marines getting drunk with local girls and supposedly raping them. The marines & witnesses said the girls were willing enough but then the next day two girls claimed they were raped. The Marines were tried under US law and the marines got off because it was a he said, she said thing. Any way the Japanese press had a field day and the SOFA was changed.