27-08-2003 16:40									#1
	Fundies "cure" autistic boy Support Apolyton

CNN: Autistic boy dies at faith healing service

This is a somewhat sanitized version of events. This was no "faith healing": this was an exorcism. The cause of death was asphyxiation, apparently caused by someone sitting on the kid's chest.

A later CNN article: Autistic boy's death at church ruled homicide

Another article: Boy's death ruled homicide

quote: "Didn't do nothing wrong," David Hemphill said outside his home Sunday afternoon, with the sounds of yelling and moaning from his gathered flock plainly audible from his front steps. "We did what the Book of Matthew said, Chapter 12. All we did is ask God to deliver him."... ...He also said the child's death would not change the way the church operates, saying: "How you going to change the Bible?" The boy had a spirit in him, the pastor said. Asked how he knew that, he said: "I'm 62 years old, and I can tell a person that's not normal."

An alleged quote from Hemphill that these sources left out:

quote: "The boy just had a problem in his mind, and what we were doing was asking God to fix it," Hemphill said. "He chose to fix it by taking him back home to Him."

So the cure worked! He isn't autistic anymore! Halleluia!

It seems pretty clear to me that this kid was tortured to death, even if his torturers didn't intend to actually kill him. And that Hemphill is a dangerous lunatic who deserves to go to prison for a very long time. His only possible defense is insanity.

But will a Milwaukee jury see it that way?

To what extent is religion a legitimate excuse for behavior that wouldn't be tolerated otherwise?

	27-08-2003 16:44									#2
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None. Religion is not above the law.

	27-08-2003 17:17									#3
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If that had of happened in Haiti they'd be calling it Voodoo, it's scary people still believe crap like that

	27-08-2003 18:41									#4
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What UR said
This is torture and unintentional homicide. This deserves all the jailtime it can get

	27-08-2003 18:43									#5
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It probably deserves more jailtime than it can get

stupid freaks

	27-08-2003 18:47									#6
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Put them in the cell that the pedophile priest had... it's vacant.

	27-08-2003 18:48									#7
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Make them die by their own methods.

	27-08-2003 18:49									#8
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shoot them in the lung, and then take them to a faith healing service.

	27-08-2003 19:22									#9
	Re: Fundies "cure" autistic boy Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless But will a Milwaukee jury see it that way?

In all likelihood, yes. The dominant religious makeup of Milwaukee is Lutheran, with some Episcopalians and Catholics thrown in, and a relatively low proportion of hard core fundamentalist types. This guy will be seen as a frootloop by Milwaukee's mainstream religious standards, and their juries aren't a lot different from anywhere else in the US.

	27-08-2003 19:53									#10
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This almost seems like a certain conviction for unintentional homicide, though I suppose the prosecution could try for more claiming a reasonable person should know what the pastor was doing could easily kill the boy.

What I am interested in is will the mainstream fundamentalist community rally behind the murderers, or will they condemn it?

	27-08-2003 19:56									#11
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Casting out devils eh?

Shame the Bible doesn't actually have a "HOW TO" section. Any old fvckwit can have a go.

	27-08-2003 20:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi What I am interested in is will the mainstream fundamentalist community rally behind the murderers, or will they condemn it?

Unfortunately, faith healing is big among the fundies. It's nasty, some would't even go to the doctors for treatment.

	27-08-2003 20:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi This almost seems like a certain conviction for unintentional homicide, though I suppose the prosecution could try for more claiming a reasonable person should know what the pastor was doing could easily kill the boy. What I am interested in is will the mainstream fundamentalist community rally behind the murderers, or will they condemn it?

Nah -- there are too many white fundamentalists focused on the evil people in the world called homosexuals.

This issue will not get their notice.

	27-08-2003 20:45									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi This almost seems like a certain conviction for unintentional homicide, though I suppose the prosecution could try for more claiming a reasonable person should know what the pastor was doing could easily kill the boy. What I am interested in is will the mainstream fundamentalist community rally behind the murderers, or will they condemn it?

Personally, I don't think ignorance should be a defense or excuse for murder.

	27-08-2003 21:28									#15
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"Unfortunately, faith healing is big among the fundies. It's nasty, some would't even go to the doctors for treatment."

Right. Reminds me of a case awhile back where a fundamentalist got into a car accident with a drunk driver. Medical personnel arrived on time but because of the fundies' religion treatment was refused and the fundie died. The Prosecution tried to charge the drunk driver for killing the fundie, but the defense argued that the driver didn't kill the fundie, as the damages would not have been enough to kill if the wounds were treated, therefore it was the refusal of treatment and not the drunk driver that was responsible for the death. The jury acquitted the drunk driver of killing the fundie(though they did convict him of drunk driving), and so the defendant went to jail for less time.

So, mainstream Americans have little sympathy for this fundamentalist BS, though I suspect the defense in this case will try to make sure the jury has as many fundies as possible.(I wonder if they may try for a change of venue to rural Winsconsin where there are more fundies?) It takes a unanimous vote of the jury to convict, so as long as the defense could produce one hard-line fundie on any jury they produced, it could be very difficult to convict this guy.

	27-08-2003 21:35									#16
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quote: Religion is not above the law.

Whatever happened to true separation of church and state?

	27-08-2003 21:38									#17
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The state has a moral obligation to protect children from their parents in the event that the child's life is put in danger.

	27-08-2003 21:41									#18
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Oerdin: It's thinking like that why get stupid parents locking their kids in cages... The moral obligation does not fall on the state to protect, only to punish, and if in punishing we protect then so be it... The parents have the moral obligation to protect their children.

I know, I twisted it around a little, but I see that approach to state obligations as why there are so many problems in this country...

	27-08-2003 21:57									#19
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Was he homosexual?

	27-08-2003 21:58									#20
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quote: What I am interested in is will the mainstream fundamentalist community rally behind the murderers, or will they condemn it?

Do I count as part of the mainstream 'Fundy' community?

I believe that the accused refers to this passage in Matthew 12:22,

"Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see."

Nothing there about having to sit on someone's chest in order to cast out demons. Therefore, I have to agree with Jack, et al, that they should be charged with homicide.

	27-08-2003 22:00									#21
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People always want an easy cure.

Autism really is curable though. I spent my summer at the Option Institute where the founders, Barry Neil Kauffman and his wife cured their "incurable" son from Autism. He's now one of the teachers there and a really friendly and funny guy.

- Narz

	27-08-2003 23:19									#22
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"
Do I count as part of the mainstream 'Fundy' community?"

Well you are a conservative Protestant but I don't think you really qualify as a fundie. I am sure enough of what you have said would have caused a number of "real" fundies to believe you are going to hell.

	27-08-2003 23:27									#23
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I consider myself a fundy

but than, I consider anyone who believes on God/Christ 100% to be a fundy

Jon Miller

	27-08-2003 23:30									#24
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quote: I am sure enough of what you have said would have caused a number of "real" fundies to believe you are going to hell.

Must be all that cavorting with Catholics.

	27-08-2003 23:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Must be all that cavorting with Catholics.

Aren't you a catholic ?

	27-08-2003 23:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Aren't you a catholic ?

Looks like obiwan was right about the cause of his damnation.

	27-08-2003 23:46									#27
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No, I'm an Evangelical Mennonite.

That's going in my sig.

	27-08-2003 23:50									#28
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Tsk, for some reason I was sure Obiwan was a Catholic

	28-08-2003 00:01									#29
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quote: The moral obligation does not fall on the state to protect, only to punish, and if in punishing we protect then so be it...

wrong... read the Constitution...

	28-08-2003 04:10									#30
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quote: read the Constitution

The what!? Regardless of what it says, nothing could have been done by the state to prevent this from happening, they can't be in everyones house all the time raising everyone's children as some ppl think they should... It is up to the parents to raise their children with compasion and not squash them.