30-08-2003 23:38									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Autists are described as having an extremely male brain, more inclined for cold calculation than for empathy.

That's a bit oversimplified. We do have warmer feelings, but they are rarely revealed for several reasons:
-Our faces, voices and body language don't naturally react to our emotions to the same extent that normal people's do. Like I said, my voice has been described as overly flat in affect, mostly because I don't alter my tone unless I'm very excited or agitated, or am consciously trying to do so. I might have the makings of a great actor with all the pratice I have in miming emotion.
-We aren't naturally sociable. We don't dislike people, but our lack of normal social skills makes it a rather exhausting task to talk to them so we usually stay to ourselves to avoid a mental breakdown.
-On a similar note, we tend to be leery of people, because autistics are autistic from early childhood onwards, and we learn very quickly that opening up emotionally to others leaves you emotionally vulnerable. Autism makes you a lot easier for bullies to exploit, and a bully doesn't have to be a genius to figure it out, so from playground age onwards we are taught over and over again that open expression is a deliberate quest for pain. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it's how many of us are.
-As a rule, we do not have the same appreciation for shades of grey that you probably do. Though the difference between right and wrong is defined differently by different autistics, we have in common that for all of us there is absolute truth and absolute falsehood, and any difficulty in discerning between the two is the fault of individual personality flaws rather than the given moral conundrum. This is in some ways a good thing, insofar as it makes us almost totally incorruptible and nearly immune to brainwashing. You could also make the argument that such a worldview is in fact the correct one, but let's not get into that. This also causes a problem, however, insofar as it makes us look horribly unsympathetic. For example, I personally do not give a rat's arse whether a woman was raped or sexually abused, whether the condom broke, or whatever, but consider abortion immoral regardless, because it is IMO not the child's fault that one or both of its parents was a creep or a fool. The pain felt by the parent is in my eyes unfortunate but irrelevant to the question, because the alternative to feeling that pain is unacceptable to me for unrelated reasons. The mother's feelings and the child's well-being are in this case two mainly independent conditions which happen to act against each other in one aspect, and that aspect is ideally considered in light of which concern is more important. The lesser concern is not devoid of value, it just isn't as important, which is all that matters by my reckoning. Other people don't see things that way. Note that this is just an example of my thought patterns chosen because it's one I think about a great deal and can explain well; please don't turn this thread into an abortion argument.
-That also affects our self-expression in some ways, as we decide whether or not to use a given word based on how specific and correct its meaning is and whether the person we're talking to knows it. So we sometimes sound like computers unless we're consciously trying not to, or have a lot of practice at blending in.

	30-08-2003 23:44									#32
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psychopaths simply have some sort of mental disorder; however, the term has come to apply more specifically to Antisocial Personality Disorder - the disorder called, until recently, sociopathy.

According to the DSM-IV, the American Psychiartic Association's guide for diagnosing patients, symptoms of Antisocial personality disorder include:

quote: (1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest (2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure (3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead (4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults (5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others (6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations (7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

for more info: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/d...ntisocialpd.htm

In other words, there' s essentially no difference between psychopathy and sociopathy.

	30-08-2003 23:44									#33
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A psychotic is someone who is conventionally nuts: i.e. suffers delusions, hears voices, prone to unplanneed outbursts of violence, etc.

Psychopath and sociopath are two words for the same thing. I don't believe either is used professionally anymore. A psychopath is both someone who is incapable of understanding that other people matter in themselves and who possesses a radical lack of self control. It's not an all or nothing thing, really. Most of us know quite a few mild psychopaths, they are sometimes very successful people.

There was a move in business psychology a few years back to do something about "organisational psychopaths". These are the people who will do anything to advance themselves in a company with no regard for honesty or the worth of others. Some bright spark realised that these people are actually very bad for a company so the advice was not to hire them.

	30-08-2003 23:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit psychopaths simply have some sort of mental disorder; however, the term has come to apply more specifically to Antisocial Personality Disorder - the new name for sociopathy.

Thanks. I couldn't remember the name. My book on psychopathy is quite old - it lists homosexuality as an indicator.

	30-08-2003 23:53									#35
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quote: why he feels the creator can not afford pity. if yu pity what is, how can you gather the strength to destroy it and oevrthrow it when you create the new?

That's a very corrosive way of thinking. Does not every man protect what he creates, simply because the creation represents part of the creator? The same is with God. God cares and pities man because he created man.

Back on the topic with psychology, how does one first determine whether or not something qualifies as a disorder? Taking a straw poll?

	30-08-2003 23:58									#36
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Yes, in the end its just a poll....
Just look for example at the witchhunts back in the times. For us today those hunters were the crazy ones. For those ppl. back than the "witches" were...

Its just a poll.

	31-08-2003 00:07									#37
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Obiwan, psychiatrists have a set of guidelines that they follow to diagnose disorders; the bible of which, as mentioned by Goingonit, is DSM-IV. Although I'd imagine if you run MRI scans and notice a deficiency of a certain neurotransmitter, you might be able to hazard a guess of what someone is suffering from (e.g. seretonin deficit = depression)

	31-08-2003 00:52									#38
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 That's a very corrosive way of thinking. Does not every man protect what he creates, simply because the creation represents part of the creator? The same is with God. God cares and pities man because he created man.

This may be true, but the point is to be like a child, in that a child is constantly creating: they may have an attachement to something for some time, but eventually, they decide something new is in order, and move to make it so. Corrosion leads to the end of the old, but gives you the raw materials you need to make the new.

As for pity: do you pity those you love? I don;t think that is a good thing.

	31-08-2003 03:05									#39
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This is a story about a girl. While at the funeral of her own mother, she met a guy whom she did not know. She thought this guy was amazing, so much her dream guy she believed him to be, that she fell in love with him there but never asked for his number and could not find him. A few days later the girl killed her own sister.

Question: What is her motive in killing her sister?

Give this some thought for a while before you scroll down.
( DON'T CHEAT! )

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She thought if she killed a family member the guy might show up at another funeral.

If you answered this correctly, you think like a psychopath. This apparently was a test by a famous American psychologist used to test if one has the same mentality as a killer. Many arrested serial killers took part in this test and answered it correctly.

Oh yeah, at first I didn't have a clue, but after rereading the story carefully, I saw they met at a funeral, so then I guessed her motive...

	31-08-2003 04:54									#40
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Ok according to Agathon, I am psychotic! I can kinda agree with that, I am pretty nuts, but not in a violent or destructive way.

	31-08-2003 06:23									#41
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Maniac:

	31-08-2003 06:35									#42
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According to maniac's test I am not a psychopath. I couldn't think of any reason.