02-09-2003 19:32									#1
	Inters guide to land map ron game - comments Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Following is my preffered game - comments?

1. Use hotkeys where you can and zoom out – see as much as you can.

2. Create villagers to get to + 60 in timber and food (press V 5 times)

3. Research science 1 in library ( press L and then T)

4. Select scout by pressing the # key. Send 2/3 way to enemy city then to an opposite corner then back along the edge to one of your corners then towards the middle then towards your other corner then along the edge to his other corner then back to your city to do immediate surrounds.

5. Research civil 1 in library (press L then E).

6. Create villager and send to area near boarder with mountains and forest the site for the 2nd city.

7. While city being built research commerce 1 at the library (press L the R) and build 6 or 7 villagers if you can. Create lumber mill in forest of second city. Once city built create 5 new farms – objective to get to +100 in food and timber.

8. Use villager in a farm of capitol to build market then temple. Once market complete build a caravan – do this concurrently with step 6. Look at the rare resources, anything with a timber or food or gold bonus take. Do the same with 2nd city.

9. Look at your resources and population as you need to decide what to research next. You should have 20 or so villagers, 1 caravan, one scout and maybe 1-2 merchants. If no rushes research science 2 if you can to reduce the cost of other research and give scout extra ruin bonuses.

10. Next research civil 2 and take an existing villager from a maxed resource to the area you want to build your 3rd city.

11. While 3rd city is being built research classical age then military 1.

12. Once you hit classical build a university in your capitol and 2nd city. Again using existing villagers from maxed resources. Build 1 more caravan and produce new villagers to put in mines and 7-10 scholars for the universities.

13. Next science is commerce 2. While you are researching build villagers to build new farms and lumber mill in city 3. In 2nd city create a tower near the lumber mill and farms if you can.

14. Next research science 3, millitary2 then medieval. Don’t cue until after science 3 researched.

15. Build a fort near your 3rd city and a stable then barracks. Produce a spy and look for the enemys centre of millitary buildings. Don’t bribe just watch

16. From steps 5 through to 13 keep an eye on the resources and keep at maximum. Build scholars, mines, farms, caravans, merchants as needed and warranted.

17. Also need to consider wonders. Colossus, Statue of liberty, Eiffel Tower and Apollo wonders are my preference. Build them if you can, when you can. That’s it. Race your enemy if you can. Mayans build them 50% quicker and Egyptians an age earlier so keep this in mind. Its ok to pull villagers from farms, mines, lumber mills in a wonder race. Do it and do it like you want to win.

18. If there has been no attacks to now they will be coming. So build an arms of slingers. In gunpowder age they convert to abers or rifle men in enlightenment. Build heavy and light cavalry as well. Don’t upgrade anything until your ready to attack or your attacked. Raid his lands with some horse archers set to raid.

19. Time for 4th city behind the lines – this is a boom city, few defences just a market and university with farms, lumber mill and mines. With 4th city you will have all the resources you need with lumber mills, granaries and smelters to keep resources maxed for now.

20. Build a seige factory behind the fort and garrison a caravan or 2 and 4-6 catapults.

21. Keep the reseach going all the time – science first then civil then commerce then millitary then age – keep science ahead of everything if at all possible.

22. At enlightenment upgrade your slingers, scout, lt and hv cavalry and your cannons – its time for war!

23. Make sure your riflemen have 1-2 scouts with them, caravans and the cannons. 1-2 generals is a must. Use your gernerals to create dummies in the army before it marches. This is your first control group.

24. The lt cavalry is your 2nd group and your hv cavalry your 3rd. A spy walks out in front on control group 1.

25. Use your cannons on 1st fort 2nd city 3rd tower. With any luck you have caught him short and he is either still to research enlightemnent or he hasn’t upgraded his army. Either way you have 30-60 seconds free bombardment. Send your light cavalry wide around the back of the city – you should catch the seige coming to the battle behind his main force. His cavalry could be charging in at this stage – use your hv cavaly to help the rifle men – pull them back once his cavalry is gone – same for the lt cavalry once the seige are gone or are being defended.

26. Use a spy to scout were the army is reforming while you attack the known millitary buildings – use cannons – riflemen need to protect them. Use the cavalry groups to hit and run the reforming army – don’t loose to many. Send back your worst ˝ injured arms to the fort for 1-2 mins healing

27. Once assimilated build new fort with it and used this to heal – a new barracks and stable as well.

28. Hows the economy? Hows the research? Don’t forget to keep these moving. Now the attack is on you want to reach the next ages ASAP to upgrade military and keep the pressure on, get oil and get air!! Remember the extra caravans and villagers to make use of the resources of the new cities you take.

29. Note if your initial attack is going to fail pull back some of your force and defend your territory – wait, build and try again. Don’t pull them all back or you will be wiped out – the death of a few for the benefit of the whole. Build a new city to keep the resources going. Your next attack is in the industrial if your still alive!

	03-09-2003 16:12									#2
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I think a collection of hints is helpful but a complete "walkthrough" doesn't help much. The best strategie is obviously depending on a lot of things.

Although science 1 is a good choice for the first research there are many cases where you start with something else. The research order is depending on map size, tech rate, the nation you chose, how many ruins you find etc.

The same problems are with:
when do I build my second city?
How many cities do I build at all?
When do I upgrade to classic age?
When do I start building wonders?
Which wonders have to be built (depending on voctory conditions and play style)


My walkthrough would be completely different from yours:

go to 60/70 food/timber first (77/70 with egypts)
research commerce 1.
if there are rare ressources build a market
go to 100/100 or whatever the cap for your nation is.
research civ1
found another city
advance to classic right after the first AI
start the colossus immediately - ignore metal until it is completed. with egypts I start the colossus befor advancing to classic
research mil 1

...

In the future I concentrate on collecting knowledge and researching science. I always try to advance second. In enlightment or latest industrial I have Science 7. Then I take the lead and because of the greatly reduced tech costs I'm usually 1 age ahead, soon.


What I want to say is:

The best strategie is not to follow a premade plan, but to make the best of the current conditions.

However, there are a few fix points I always visit. For me these are: Colossus, Versailles, SoL, Space Program.





There is one point where I totally agree with you:


"... build an arms of slingers. In gunpowder age they convert to abers or rifle men in enlightenment. Build heavy and light cavalry as well. Don’t upgrade anything until your ready to attack or your attacked. ..."

	03-09-2003 19:27									#3
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Thanks for that great to hear someone elses view.

I don't disagree at all with flexability and the need to adapt and change as you need. My plan was the pre game plan of what I like to do before I know the map, the terrain and my opponent - it generally goes out the door every time but I find a road map helps me remember what I should be doing and when.

The only thing I didn't like about your walk through was the late (3rd) research on science and a delay in building the 2nd city. Science will increase the ruin bonus which helps significantly. In my last game I got an additional 500 through ruins - early in the game that is critical.

I also agree that you should have your commerce pumping on or just before the 2nd but to sit back and wait till they are on maximum will leave you exposed to a potential rush which is always a possibility.

Totally agree with not being concerned who is first to research age up to gunpowder/enlightemnent. Science research is by far the priority.

Thanks again!

Andrew

	03-09-2003 20:06									#4
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The difference in the early research priority has several reasons:

1. I start as nomad. So I don't have a scout at the beginning. I found it is not rewarding to explore the map with peasants. So I don't find ruins early.

2. I build a market as early as possible. trade charts are cheap and yield 20 ressources + (sometimes) a good bonus. If I find the ressources needed (happens only sometimes since I have no scout) This is the reason why I don't need a second city early

3. On some land maps there is water. If fishing is possible I save the timber for a dock + fishermen.

4. I need 200 timber to build the colossus right after advance to classic.

	03-09-2003 23:02									#5
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Starting with small city:
I usually hit sci 1, civ 1, and com 1 (in that order) before anything else. It eliminates the need to save up later. I send the first two citizens to wood, and by then the Sci rebate has kicked in and I can build more farms.

	04-09-2003 02:38									#6
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I agree with this my first 3 techs are always sic, civ, com. If I can I usually go back to sci and then com to get over 100 + in wood and food before mil and classical (I hope this is what I said above!).

I totally agree with the tech tree long term though. Keep your library research in a line with science 2-3 ahead of your age advance and everything on a hypothetical line between them (for example sci 4, comm 3, civ 2, mil 1, classical).

Early on you are behind with ages but gunpowder, enlightenment and industrial ages are research quick. You make it up and overtake.

	04-09-2003 15:54									#7
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research order also depends on ressources and tech. with low ressources and expensive tech it takes ages to get these 180 timber for science 1. The 90 timber/90 food are much easier to get.

researching Commerce 2 before classic is a waste of ressources. It cost's nearly as much food as the age advance and becomes much cheaper in classic. The only lvl 2 tech I would consider before classic is civ 2, but usually you don't need it at this time.

	04-09-2003 17:11									#8
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I respect what you say but I have to disagree that cost are to high for com 2, sci2 or civ 2, even sci 3 before clasical. Biggest limiting factor in classical for upgrades is knowledge and you wont get near +100 knowledge without spending alot on scholares. By holding of clasical you can set yourself up for cheap advances latter on. I normally get clasical for under 160 food and if you do it right its a quick move to medieval and you just keep booming and teching.

As soon as you hit 200+ in wood and food you pump out the slingers. and as soon as you hit +150 metal and +150 gold I pump out lt and hv cavalry. They arn't be resource drainers especially if you keep booming with cities, schollars, and caravans.

Again I upgrade only if attacked - defence to hold them until you have out teched him to enlightenment the upgrade and decimate.

And this is all dependent of what the opponent does and what the map is like and what the conditions are. I am assuming here a random land map, capitol victory and normal resource and tech growth ie the standard defalt game.

	04-09-2003 20:52									#9
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I disagree

advancing to classical allows to build the colossus. This means higher caps for timber and gold, and 30% more gold. these 30% more gold help alot. The saved ressources for the upgrades allow taxation research and marketplaces + trade units. There are many rare ressources that give gold or knowledge, this also helps. In addition the classic advance allows mining and collecting knowledge. I wouldn't wait too long with it (but on toughest I usually don't advance first) The advance to medieval is less important, there is no need to hurry.

Science research is important, but scholars come first. Usually in classical I spend all money on scholars (except the 200 for the colossus)

Edit: classic advance under 160 food is not possible with tech set to "expensive". I think 160 is what you get setting tech to "cheap" with science 3 when you not advance first.

playing with cheap tech is a completely different story than playing with expensive tech. In this case I would choose a different research order, too.

One example: For me the colossus is cheaper than the development of commerce 2 (and helps more). For you the colossus is by far more expensive than the commerce 2 advance.

I think we were just talking about different things

2nd edit:
ok, actually classic advance under 160 food is possible with expensive tech, but you need science 6 or 7 and I doubt you're still alive at this time playing on toughest in the ancient age ...

Last edited by HeymlicH on 04-09-2003 at 21:08

	04-09-2003 21:27									#10
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I'll check but I think standard resarch costs, going classical 2nd, with sci 3 is under 160 food. I don't mess with the research cost settings, I hate faste and cheep and expensive and slow - I like the sausage and egg game not the stuffed quail with french truffles games !!

Good defence of your views though, but I still like mine!

	11-09-2003 12:53									#11
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The strat in the first post looks like it will lose to a pre-gunpowder attack.

	11-09-2003 15:40									#12
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Yes that is by far its biggest weakness.

In recent games I have been aiming to get 1000 points in economy and millitary by the 15 min mark - it takes alot of concentration on my behalf (I'm sure better players can do it easy but I'm old and slow :-) ) but its something to aim for.

Basically I'm focusing on economy for first 10 min and then building millitary units (slingers, heavy cav and catapults) in the next 5 in while keeping the economy going.

This has really helped me combat medieval raids which was the original weakness and has me ready for a unit upgrade come gunpowder if my scouting shows it is whorth while.

Ancient and classical rushes can be detected with some good scouting early - obviously modify the game strat if you think the rush is on.

I have observed alot of people building alot of barracks and stables early on (3 buildings each) which seems a wast of resources to me.

I have checked the replays and 90% of the time some of the barracks/stables never produce anything, which I could understand for producing rapid armys - but it doesn't happen).

I occassionally build a second baracks/stables so I can do research if I need to straight away or later in the game to bring the buildings close to the front line (if I'm advancing!) but thats it. Anyone have any views on why so many? More targets to slow an advancing army? A little defeatest isn't it if thats the reason?