02-09-2003 19:58									#1
	Restrospective: Tribute to the Civs Support Apolyton

This thread is here because Conquests is coming up and I think it's time we all looked back on the Civs we loved to love and loved to hate; our favorites to play as, and the winning strategies we devised (or learned) for them. With the traits changing, and (if you play with cultural linking on) the typical neighbors changing, my guess is that quite a few tried-and-true civ-specific strategies will either be out the window or up for heavy reconsideration.

Note that this thread is in the strategy section. My favorite civ is China, because I love Chinese culture and history, but I might put the Aztecs as my favorite Civ civ.

This thread is meant not only for cheap gesalt therapy, but for a chance for all of us to look over each other's strategies, and of course, for those too broke or adamant to buy Conquests, who will still have the opportunity to use these strategies.

	02-09-2003 20:08									#2
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Tough question.

My old favorites: Babylon, Egypt, Japan, China.

New favorites: Rome, Carthage. Especially Rome.

I still like the old favs (my last two games were as China & the Babs), but I've had a BLAST with Rome lately, and one of my most powerful games ever was played as Carthage. So how to choose?

I abstain.

-Arrian

	02-09-2003 20:10									#3
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Ok, I lied.

My favorite Civ civ IS China... I just wanted to list an example from above, in case you're an Anglophile but you love playing as the Iroquois the most.

My basic approach to gameplay is "perpetual war for perpetual peace," or as some might call it, Ultimate Power. I don't just want to rule the world, I want to rule a giant empire of well-developed cities. I don't mind trading for a luxury or two, but I'd like to have the monopoly on at least 3 or 4.

For that, Industriousness and Militancy prove invaluable... I am able to archer rush my neighbors almost from the get go. Only Japan and India pose a cultural challenge (Korea does later on), and for the most part, they're easy to wipe out. The Mongols can be irritating, but they too can be swatted like flies if I start an archer/swordsmen/horseman pump.

But even if China lacked those traits - if they were, say, Commercial and Scientific - I'd still love China, because of the Rider :sigh: What a wonderful unit. In my opinion, it surpasses Cavalry, simply because of timing... the Ansar warrior is almost the same thing, but the Arabs aren't militaristic, and having hordes of elite Riders... well, 3 or 4 nearby empires AT LEAST can kiss themselves goodbye when the riders come calling.

Even if China is isolated (i.e., no use for the Riders), they're still industrious and can quickly make themselves the empire to be reckoned with.

So, my vote is for the Middle Kingdom.

	02-09-2003 20:34									#4
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I have to go with China. Well time GA, super UU, best trait.

	02-09-2003 20:58									#5
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Germany took my vote. Not the best civilization, but certainly the one that has given me the fondest memories.

	02-09-2003 20:59									#6
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Japan. No civ beats Japan in terms of pure coolness. I also like cheap Barracks, Harbors and Temples, as those are the most important city improvements. Oh, and: Samurai. Enough said.


Dominae

	02-09-2003 21:10									#7
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China is a suberb choice, of course.

In terms of raw power, China is probably #1. But I don't always enjoy playing them as much as some of the other civs. It probably goes back to my use of the word "raw." China pays full price for all cultural buildings, and isn't commercial. There is little elegance to a game with China. They're designed to kick ass, PERIOD.

Like I said, I've really enjoyed Rome lately. Partly because Rome is just cool - and Legionaries, mediocre as they may be as a UU, add to the coolness factor. And partly because com/mil actually plays right into what I'm trying to do: use my military to create a massive & efficient empire. China's traits & UU are more effective at the first part (getting the empire in the first place), but Rome's commercial trait makes that empire more aesthetically pleasing to me.

-Arrian

	02-09-2003 21:20									#8
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I think that most of the times, militaristic is a waste (probably due to my playing style).
I like Egypt, its traits are as awesome as its UU (bad timing for a GA though since I love War Chariots and the Pyramids).
My list of favourite civs also include Babylon (great traits, weak UU), Korea (also great traits but I prefer religious to scientific simply because anarchy sucks :O ), India (my second favourite civ), America (huge maps only), and China (well, if I decide to go for some warmongering ).

	02-09-2003 22:14									#9
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I vote Egypt, mostly because I get to be Cleopatra, Goddess Incarnate.

However, the Civ reason is the combination of Traits. I hate government change anarchy and love cheap Temples. And to conter any militaristic neighbors, I use the strategy of "I can afford to build a military twice as big as yours. In fact, I have already done that, so please, attack me as soon as you think you're ready." The only drawback is the Golden Age timing issue, which the evil programmers put in there just to irritate me.

Carthage is good for that strategy as well: build an empire big enough and strong enough that no one in their right mind would muck with you. (AI civilizations often fail to fit into that category.) My one try at milking a high score was with the Carthiginians. It was rather successful, but became a micromanagement nightmare. I used to like France for the same traits, as well as being Joan, but I like the Carthage UU better.

And when I feel like being more offensively warmongering, it's China every time. The strategy becomes "I can build a military bigger than yours and I am going to use it. Now!" This can be expressed as a variant of USA history which once had the "Good Neighbor Policy". I have developed the "Bad Neighbor Policy", which is a fairly self-describing policy and the details become even more obvious to my ex-neighbors.

But still, my favorite is Egypt. I can build. I can fight. I can look good in the process. I love it.

	03-09-2003 01:39									#10
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My Civ policy is a good neighbor is a dead one.

	03-09-2003 02:05									#11
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Egypt is my favourite. They have my two favourite traits and are a lovely civilization in this world. I really love mythology and even if I prefer the greek the egyptian is nice too. The early GA is a big, big, big problem, but you can rush for monarchy while building your army and then just swarm. They are dirt cheap and quite efficient if you unleash them before pikemen/knights. Just hope Greece isn't your only neighbour. They's be annoying.

Other favourite civs are:

China: Riders rule the world. Militaristic and Industrial is perfect for a war monger. I seldom leave Monarchy playing them.

Babylon: On lower difficulties. Scientific is pretty much wasted on deity, but I'm a builder at heart. And noone can build like the Babs. Culture power!

Japan: A lot like China, but builds better. A bit more hybrid. Cheap temples and easy transitions are lovely, but I miss industrious. The Samurajs are slower, but safer. Wars don't go as fast but I'm sure I'll win them. Plus, they're cool.

Iroquis: Mounted Warriors are simply the best UU in the game. Cheap, powerful, able to retreat. Plus, religious is always lovely. I could live without expansionist though, but noone's perfect. I'm disappointed they have no votes yet.

	03-09-2003 03:03									#12
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I guess my overall favorite civ is China. Just awsome to warmonger with. Who need stinkin' culture with Riders and cheap barracks!!

After China my pick would be Carthage. Awsome civ for both SP and MP.

Finally, an honorable mention goes to Persia because sci/ind is awsome and the Immortal is just wicked

	03-09-2003 03:37									#13
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China was my long time favorite. On the larger maps the Rider is a near perfect UU and Industrious is the capper of civ traits. But I have been enjoying playing Persia quite a bit lately. The immortal can tip the scales quite effectively early in the game is a surprising long lasting UU if I feel like holding off my golden age until much later. And cheap libraries combined with the more effective workers is a hard to beat bonus.

	03-09-2003 04:24									#14
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Carthage.

	03-09-2003 06:28									#15
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Civ3 Rome, PTW The Celts but Rome gets the vote.

	03-09-2003 09:31									#16
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Egypt is very convenient in building the mounted-unit, but you hardly find horse in very early age, so I choose China.

Aztecs is same good, but its golden-age come on too early.

	03-09-2003 11:04									#17
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Egypt, because of industrial and religious.

I love the fast workers and the 'instant' temples.
And the 1 turn anarchy.
GA is no problem for me. I hardly ever build the chariots.
Passing the Pyramids is a hit on large maps though.

	03-09-2003 12:00									#18
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France, for all my PUP and PP games.
Carthage comes second.
I'm a loner, I know....

	03-09-2003 13:57									#19
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Japan. No question about it. Cool UU at a good time. Cheap key city improvements. No anarchy so you can always be in the right government.

2nd choice - Ottomans. Partly because they are rather different from Japan. Again a good UU and the best one to give you a GA just at the right moment to seize a decisive advantage going into the industrial era.

	03-09-2003 16:15									#20
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I've not voted for the best civ, but the one I've had most fun with (the best in another sense then), namely the Aztecs. Great fun to play this civ and go and swarm all over your neighbours early in the game. Other civs providing notable amounts of fun have been Japan, Celts, Vikings (current game) and Persia.

As for most powerful, the civs are well balanced to a good extent now, with some exceptions. It depends on what knid of game you want to play. Massive REX to set up an unbeatable base - go for America. Continual warfare, China. Ultra-early war, Germany or Aztecs. Huge map, France.

	03-09-2003 17:43									#21
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Germany mainly becuse I love the smell of panzers in the morning. They may be a dissadvantage with their timing but hell it is fun to play.

My usual startegy is to get an overall sicentific lead, then use it to trade the less militaritic techs to my slower neighbours, using alliances and treaties to make sure my enemies die. However I use militristic traits to usually make sure my empire is defended at all times making sure that no nation will attack me!

I seldom take over the entire world. I simply a player who usually concentrates on defensive measures, makeing a few short wars to increase my empire's earning capacity and making my nation as the most culutred, diplomatic and revered on the world.

All HEIL GERMANY!

	03-09-2003 19:19									#22
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Carthage.

I am playing as Carthage right now... I was hoping they would prove to be my faves, but I've had to restart about 20 times... just can't seem to get an edge... aggravating, given how well they often perform (relatively speaking) as an AI...

	03-09-2003 20:30									#23
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SPQR was my immediate response. ROMA VICTOR!!

But there are so many others I love... Egypt and Persia of course, and Japan and China.

And while I don't love the civ, man do I love Berserks!!

When I get some experience with them, I predict I'll be a big fan of Ottomans as well.

	03-09-2003 20:42									#24
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Heh, Siphai are fun. Silly fun.

8/3/3 is just evil. I remember the "Strategic Choice" game, where I hit Egypt with like 50 Siphai, and Egypt's best defenders were musketmen. Oh my did they go down hard.

-Arrian

	03-09-2003 20:44									#25
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I'll still take a Cossack any day over a Sipahi.

On the other hand, I'll take any number of Civs over the Russians and Ottomans...

	03-09-2003 20:52									#26
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I used to think Egypt was just the best civ out there because of rel/ind. However, over time I realized the UU came at a very early time, and that religious really wasn't my cup of tea compared to other traits (although I admit I'm very biased in this opinion).

So I guess for a new player Egypt is the finest pic but over time a good player can probably find others more rewarding.

Sipahis rule!
(but as far as sci/ind goes, I prefer Immorals)

	04-09-2003 00:35									#27
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China and Ottomans: Both industrious, both have a killer UU and a well timed GA.

China is a quicker fix for the war monger and militarism makes it oh so cheap and easy.

Ottomans make you wait a while longer before spanking the AI - but not too long since you are scientific.

	04-09-2003 00:37									#28
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quote: (but as far as sci/ind goes, I prefer Immorals)

Immorals??

ROME.
In my mod, Republic requires Printing Press & Banking, Democracy requires Nationalism, and specialist effects are doubled. I don't even bother leaving Monarchy. Conquer and consolidate.

EDIT: An interesting site I had neglected to mention:
Roman Republic Art of War

	04-09-2003 01:28									#29
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Jaybe is your mod posted here and if so could you provide a link? sounds interesting

	04-09-2003 01:48									#30
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ChrisiusMaximus,
My mod is much more extensive than that as it has evolved over the years. Tell ya what I'll do: I'll give you the complete documentation so you can pick and choose.

Two MS Word files:
030509 Mtns Impass.doc (the core changes, utilizes the following file)
Unit Stats, 030508 mod.doc (lists changes to units only)

Attachment: 030509 mtns impass.doc
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