05-09-2003 17:28									#31
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The no. 1 reason I think Civ 3 is such a good game is because it provides a challenge. It's the only strategy game I rarely win even under the most difficult circumstances. It has some flaws, but they're needed to provide the challenge.

	05-09-2003 19:16									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: The no. 1 reason I think Civ 3 is such a good game is because it provides a challenge. It's the only strategy game I rarely win even under the most difficult circumstances.

Definitely not the only challenging civ game, though. CtP2 with Cradle is at least as challenging as Civ 3 - few people can beat it on the toughest level.

	05-09-2003 20:04									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

Civ I was a good game, at the time.

Civ II was a good game, at the time.

Civ III was a good game, at the time and still is.

PTW and Conquest should have been added in the release of Civ III, it would have been cheaper.

Still, we would have waited for another two years before playing something better and new.

So the price for Civ III and the add-ons is more than acceptable.

	05-09-2003 21:52									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: What level did you play AoE2 on? University was the only "pure research" building,

So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about?

quote: Wonder victory, duh. Of several hundred games I've played, I don't think more than ten ended with a Wonder. Now, in RoN, you have the options about when you want to attack. In AoE2, you must attack in the Feudal Age, preferrably at a time of 13 minutes or so. Fast Castle is the only other option, but only viable if you can do it really fast (under 15)... Feudal players got too good. And, those battles are the key in AoE2. Things like attrition and diplomacy in RoN do really make economy more important than an army, and make playing without any significant army an option.

Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'. Standard might just be called Standard for a reason, though.

	05-09-2003 22:59									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about?

Enable you a Siege Workshop and advance to the Feudal Age . Some players build a Blacksmith and delete it immediately for KLEW or SMUSH...

quote: Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'.

The only one effective online .

	06-09-2003 01:44									#36
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about? Enable you a Siege Workshop and advance to the Feudal Age . Some players build a Blacksmith and delete it immediately for KLEW or SMUSH... quote: Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'. The only one effective online .

I used to LAN with a friend. We'd give each other time to build up a new town and take it in turns to attack. It was a lot more fun than hurrying, rushing and all that.

	06-09-2003 15:32									#37
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by David Murray Oh, and er, you seem to have forgotten the wonder victory option in AoE 2 ....

Wonder victory option? Worrying about difficulty level? You must have just played single-player or friendly games. Which is cool, but a different experience from more competitive stuff.

I played a lot of AOE, and I can safely say I've forgotten all about the wonder victory option; it may as well not be there. Difficulty level only matters in the number of wolves, which might kill forward builders.

AOK does have by far the biggest economic section of an RTS, compared to say sc, I agree with that. However its still basically just came down to how good your flush was.

	06-09-2003 16:20									#38
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon Civ I was a good game, at the time. Civ II was a good game, at the time. Civ III was a good game, at the time and still is. PTW and Conquest should have been added in the release of Civ III, it would have been cheaper. Still, we would have waited for another two years before playing something better and new. So the price for Civ III and the add-ons is more than acceptable.

yes, right, like they need extra money to pay for all the programmers...

me thinks I am getting a bit cynical about the cost of these games, and the fact you need so many addons....

off to the pub with me.... beer....

and leave all of their cities in ruins....

	06-09-2003 16:48									#39
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Programmers aren't free. In fact, ones who have a clue aren't cheap. Artists, designers, and musicians have to make a living also. If they can't make a reasonable wage making games, there will be no games made (okay, there will still be a few free ones out there, but you can play them now if you are interested). The game developers that I've met weren't filthy rich.

	06-09-2003 16:53									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Programmers aren't free. In fact, ones who have a clue aren't cheap. Artists, designers, and musicians have to make a living also. If they can't make a reasonable wage making games, there will be no games made (okay, there will still be a few free ones out there, but you can play them now if you are interested). The game developers that I've met weren't filthy rich.

Ok I understand what you are saying, and this leads me to ask....

where does the money go then?

	06-09-2003 17:39									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mostly the retailers. They take about half of the $30 dollars. (If they weren't how could Best Buy sell most games for a $10 discount the week after they ship? You know they aren't taking a loss.)

Then the publisher gets their cut. Since it was developed using their money, this is a big cut. Besides giving money to the developers to make the software they usually handle the physical production (disks, boxes, and manuals), the marketing, and the distribution of the games.

If a game sells well enough to exceed the advance money (from what I hear, over 90% don't) given by publisher, then the developer starts earning royalties. At this point, your developer starts to make a profit, assuming that he has another title in the works (with upfront money from the publisher) to pay the day to day bills.

quote: Brian Reynolds - developer of Civ2, SMAC, RON and more This is the entertainment industry! That means "hits" and "flops". 10% of the games on the market make 90% of the money. A flop might sell anywhere from nothing at all to, say, 10,000 copies. An average game might sell 20,000-50,000 copies. A "near hit" might sell 100,000 copies. A "hit" might sell 250,000-500,000 copies. And the holy grail of the entertainment software industry, a "smash hit", "classic", or "game of the year", can sell 1,000,000-2,000,000 copies or more. The best selling computer game of all time is as far as I know Myst, with somewhere around 5,000,000 copies sold. Multiply that by $30 a copy, remember that you may have had to pay 50-100 people's salaries for over two years to get the thing done (not to mention marketing and distributions costs, and the royalties on any technology or licenses you bought), and you will have some idea of the scale of the risks and rewards of the industry.

	06-09-2003 17:56									#42
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Bugger

	08-09-2003 14:52									#43
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot yes, right, like they need extra money to pay for all the programmers... me thinks I am getting a bit cynical about the cost of these games, and the fact you need so many addons.... off to the pub with me.... beer.... and leave all of their cities in ruins....

So what is a good gaming alternative?

	08-09-2003 15:19									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon So what is a good gaming alternative?

ohh it is all good....

I do like the game... alot actually.

I just get a little puffed at the costs.... but that is my gig...

The game is good... hahahaha

do you enjoy it?

	08-09-2003 15:55									#45
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon So what is a good gaming alternative?

Galciv

MOO3

RON

Europa Universalis

SMAC


I'm not saying these are necessarily better than CIV3, but thay are good alternatives to try.

	08-09-2003 19:39									#46
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Galciv MOO3 RON Europa Universalis SMAC I'm not saying these are necessarily better than CIV3, but thay are good alternatives to try.

????????????????????????????????????

You must be joking???????????????????

Or aren't you????????????????????????

	08-09-2003 20:11									#47
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon ???????????????????????????????????? You must be joking??????????????????? Or aren't you????????????????????????

Please feel free to pass along your expertise in this matter. It appears that you've been playing strategy games for many weeks now.

	08-09-2003 23:21									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

When Civ3 first came out, it was plagued by bugs and by lacks of features (it was impossible to place cities or units on the map in the 'scenario' editor). To many Civ2 and SMAC fans, the disappointment came from the fact Civ3 was a "downgrade" of their favorite game. And to some extent, it still lacks features in comparison with SMAC : no unit-trading comes to mind.

However, Civ3 is a very solid game on its own too. The resource system, the culture system, the challenging AI (at least when you're still learning all the tricks to play) and the trade system give a Civ experience very distinct from the other games around. The graphics give a nice appearance, which is always good. And now, you won't be bothered by bugs or by abusive AI behaviour unless you ask for them, i.e play on emperor / deity.

The new game mechanics as well as the challenge made me immediately prefer Civ3 to Civ2. But many Civ2 players were frustrated by the lack of multiplay. This has now been fixed, and you should be quite glad with the latest patch of PtW.

Many people here have told you to wait for Conquests (Oct. 28 in the US), and I think they're right: Conquests is to include all PtW features, so you won't have to buy the gold edition to buy the full game: original Civ3 (after a quick look at Ebay, you should get it for $20) + Conquests ($30 at Amazon) will give you the full game.
However, I'd advise you to wait a bit after Conquests release. With Firaxis' past, it is possible the game still lacks polish out of the box, and need one or two months of patching before being flawless. The best thing to do is to look at the feedback on this very forum

	09-09-2003 03:59									#49
	Suffering from ads?

I just remembered, if I am wrong i'm SURE I will be corrected!

But, one of the things I love the most about civ 3 over civ2 is the fact that units aren't supported by individual cities anymore.

That eliminates some needless micromanagement in my mind.


Oh, by the way, can someone tell me what it means when your monitor fades from a regular bright picture to a yellowish tinted picture?... and this is a visible fading in and out..

Time for a new monitor? It's a gateway ev900 about 5 years old....damn.

	09-09-2003 04:49									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You're correct about the unit support change. Personally, I'd like to see units linked to a particular city during ancient and medieval times then de-linked (as in civ3) dring industrial and modern or alternatively de-linked with governments like republic and democracy.


It means your monitor is fried (yes thats the technical term). Unfortunately, after looking at the specs I dont think its worth the money to try to fix it.

	09-09-2003 04:51									#51
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My advice is to wait for Conquests, as you will have all of PtW and a new XP in the same pack.

I think most critics came from decieved Civ2 fans when they looked at the out-of-the-box game shipped by Firaxis. Some started to hit on Civ3 and the general feeling passed along many in Civ2 forums. However, Civ3 is a good game. Firaxis did a nice job of patching the bugs and omissions left in the original game (see Spiffor's post two above mine). As it stands now, Civ3 is a great game and should be at least tried by everyone. There was much improvement over the previous version and it's quite challenging, something that lacked in Civ2, to a certain extent...

--Kon--

	09-09-2003 16:53									#52
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Please feel free to pass along your expertise in this matter. It appears that you've been playing strategy games for many weeks now.

The CivIII AI is far better than CivIII, SMAC, MOO3.

The rest I have not played. But planning to try GalCiv after Conquests.

	09-09-2003 19:09									#53
	Put an end to popups!

Re the Gateway EV900 monitor (approx 5 years old) .....

FYI, i had exactly the same and after a few months of distorted screen appearance and a very annoying habit of going into standby when the computer switched to a different resolution - the monitor suffered a major electrical fault destroying it and my computer with it. Lost all my MP3s

I recommend getting rid of it ASAP and I at least wont bother buying Gateway again.

	10-09-2003 04:01									#54
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

sorry to go off topic, but.....I bought a gateway about 5 years ago with the ev900, and i have since upgraded twice, one i bought from a low level build your own shop, the latest i have now i built myself from the ground up.

The gateway monitor has stuck around throught it all, but alas, i may need a new one.

	13-09-2003 13:37									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think it's worth it now, and the upcoming expansion should make it even more interesting.

	14-09-2003 03:04									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: If there's anything that will compel you, it is this: Civ3 is still a popular game, almost two years after its initial release. The "test of time" argument is the only one that I can think of that has any merit, and even then it should not convince players who simply do not like the game to begin playing it again.

Good point and very well said.

Wow! Has it been two years already?

	14-09-2003 03:08									#57
	Got spare money?

I am curious if they are already working on Civ 4....

and then will it come out a year after Conquests....

	14-09-2003 17:26									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Civ 3 I liked
PTW's features I liked.

What I didn't like was the unoptimised mess that was PTW. Usually, X-Pacs improve a game's performance, but PTW made me dread placing spies or doing anything else that required processing.

Then there was that glorious design decision to disable Hall of Fame entries for games not played with bog standard rules. So much for minor personal preference tweaks.

My computer also wouldn't reboot after running Civ3+PTW. Not sure what exactly caused this, but the common denominator was starting up PTW.

Civ3 Conquests? I'm going to spend my $50 on something useful rather than another Firaxis X-Pac.

	14-09-2003 23:23									#59
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

IIRC you could not have modified games in HoF before PTW.
I never noticed any performace hit from PTW, but I have a 3+GH machine.
I never heard of any reboot issues with PTW either.
So what I am saying is it is fine to dislike PTW and surely fine to not want to spend the money for C3C, but the other issues are stretching it.
Anyway I would expect C3C will be less than $50.

	15-09-2003 02:08									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 IIRC you could not have modified games in HoF before PTW. I never noticed any performace hit from PTW, but I have a 3+GH machine. I never heard of any reboot issues with PTW either. So what I am saying is it is fine to dislike PTW and surely fine to not want to spend the money for C3C, but the other issues are stretching it. Anyway I would expect C3C will be less than $50.

hi ,

its expected to sell at 29.99 , ......

have a nice day