03-09-2003 11:26									#1
	ok, so is it NOW worth it? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Attention Kmart shoppers:

With the patches, xpack, mods, and slow cooking, is Civ3 now worth going back to? (I'm looking for an answer Yin26 can respect.)

I'm serious about this. I wasn't too impressed with the game, but I know things change after time, especially after expansion packs get slapped on.

	03-09-2003 11:45									#2
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In a word YES!!

If you want more than that then spend some time reading the forums here.

	03-09-2003 13:39									#3
	Got spare money?

The game is much improved with the later patches to PTW.

As for buying it either go for the gold edition with PTW and Civ3 or wait until Conquests comes out and you will get it all in the one package. Conquests looks very good indeed.

	03-09-2003 14:42									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yepp! Wait for conquests and then it's civ time. Conquests will include the PtW content.

	03-09-2003 16:27									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Wait and get Civ3 + Conquests in a couple of months.

Yes it is worth it, but then again I've said that since the beginning....

	03-09-2003 19:34									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I think Civ3 has been greatly improved with the patches and expansion packs. Considering Conquests is expected out at the end of October, you might as well wait for that and save some $$$.

	03-09-2003 20:49									#7
	Got spare money?

This is probably not the place to ask. I say that as most here are going to say yes. We are after all playing the game.
So what was the issues that you found wanting? Without knowing that, it would be hard to say if the changes address your concerns.

	03-09-2003 21:32									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, it has ALWAYS been worth it, if you ask me.

	03-09-2003 21:40									#9
	Re: ok, so is it NOW worth it? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba Attention Kmart shoppers: With the patches, xpack, mods, and slow cooking, is Civ3 now worth going back to? (I'm looking for an answer Yin26 can respect.) I'm serious about this. I wasn't too impressed with the game, but I know things change after time, especially after expansion packs get slapped on.

If you can find it bundled with the xp for less then $20 I'd say it worth it. Other wise no it is not.

	03-09-2003 21:47									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Now that's an answer I can respect!

	03-09-2003 22:23									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd wait and see whats in the XP. If its just window dressing (new units, buildings, etc) I'd agree with Oerdin. If there are fundamental, extensive, changes to the XP then it may be worth more.

	03-09-2003 23:05									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The naysayers are back!

	03-09-2003 23:43									#13
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There's nothing in the game now that will make it more "worth it" than it was when it was first released. Either you enjoy the way Civ3 turned out, or you do not. I cannot imagine the nay-sayers will find any good reason to pick up Civ3 again; the game is essentially the same as it always was.

Why not just accept that it's a matter of personal preference, and leave it at that? Why is it some sort of crime that Civ3 did not (and does not) appeal to everyone, including fans of Civ2?

When RoN came out, I was seriously unimpressed. I debated for a bit as to why I thought it's a so-so game, but realised this was a pointless exercise. The same is true here.

If there's anything that will compel you, it is this: Civ3 is still a popular game, almost two years after its initial release. The "test of time" argument is the only one that I can think of that has any merit, and even then it should not convince players who simply do not like the game to begin playing it again.


Dominae

	04-09-2003 02:52									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Dominae When RoN came out, I was seriously unimpressed. I debated for a bit as to why I thought it's a so-so game, but realised this was a pointless exercise. The same is true here.

Well, perhaps because it is a shoddy rip-off of Age of Empires 2 (a true classic).

	04-09-2003 03:39									#15
	Re: ok, so is it NOW worth it? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba With the patches, xpack, mods, and slow cooking, is Civ3 now worth going back to? (I'm looking for an answer Yin26 can respect.).

If your question is 'is it worth your time to play if you have everything installed?' the answer is totally.

	04-09-2003 11:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by David Murray Well, perhaps because it is a shoddy rip-off of Age of Empires 2 (a true classic).

	04-09-2003 16:03									#17
	Support Apolyton

Play the Civ board game, there's a challenge.

	04-09-2003 18:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's a decent game now, although I wasn't impressed by the PTW expansion too much. I have recently came up with a couple of good reasons as to why CtP2 has better gameplay, but Civ 3 is challenging and good... hope Conquests is good.

	04-09-2003 21:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by David Murray Well, perhaps because it is a shoddy rip-off of Age of Empires 2 (a true classic).

Argh, well at least you answered my question about whether or not to try RoN. I absolutely hated AoE, so I guess I probably wouldn't like RoN.

	04-09-2003 21:30									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What Dominae said. If you liked it before (or perhaps were on the brink of liking it, but were annoyed by bugs), then you'll like it now. If not, you won't.

-Arrian

	04-09-2003 22:53									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Argh, well at least you answered my question about whether or not to try RoN. I absolutely hated AoE, so I guess I probably wouldn't like RoN.

Can't agree less. I absolutely don't understand people who say RoN is a ripoff of AoE games. I have played a TON of AoE games, and all I can say is, they're not similar with RoN. There's only a little similarity on the surface, but the strategies are different, and the actual gameplay differs too. AoE is military based, focused on quick battles, RoN is economy based. Research plays a huge role in RoN, next to none in AoE.

BTW - I know of AoE people who love RoN, and those who hate it.

	05-09-2003 04:01									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Argh, well at least you answered my question about whether or not to try RoN. I absolutely hated AoE, so I guess I probably wouldn't like RoN. Can't agree less. I absolutely don't understand people who say RoN is a ripoff of AoE games. I have played a TON of AoE games, and all I can say is, they're not similar with RoN. There's only a little similarity on the surface, but the strategies are different, and the actual gameplay differs too. AoE is military based, focused on quick battles, RoN is economy based. Research plays a huge role in RoN, next to none in AoE. BTW - I know of AoE people who love RoN, and those who hate it.

Edit: I just noticed your sig. Obviously you play AoE 2, however ... it seems you've forgotten all about the blacksmith, the trading market, the university, advancing through the ages, the research at the town center, the research at mining and lumber camps, the research and upgrading of troops and ships ... etc etc etc. Military based perhaps, but you won't win any wars without resources and up to date troops ....

Oh, and er, you seem to have forgotten the wonder victory option in AoE 2 ....

	05-09-2003 05:09									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dominae There's nothing in the game now that will make it more "worth it" than it was when it was first released. Either you enjoy the way Civ3 turned out, or you do not. I cannot imagine the nay-sayers will find any good reason to pick up Civ3 again; the game is essentially the same as it always was. Why not just accept that it's a matter of personal preference, and leave it at that? Why is it some sort of crime that Civ3 did not (and does not) appeal to everyone, including fans of Civ2? When RoN came out, I was seriously unimpressed. I debated for a bit as to why I thought it's a so-so game, but realised this was a pointless exercise. The same is true here. If there's anything that will compel you, it is this: Civ3 is still a popular game, almost two years after its initial release. The "test of time" argument is the only one that I can think of that has any merit, and even then it should not convince players who simply do not like the game to begin playing it again. Dominae

You are correct in saying that those who were disappointed with civ3 when it was released will probably still be, but I don't think it is wrong to look for second opinions on the near 2 year anniversary of it's release.

After all, saying that there is nothing new to change nay sayers is your opinion.

I think it is fair to ask players after 2 years whether or not their gameplay concerns have been addressed.

On a game that has such a high level of history and prestige (and alot to live up to) as Civ3, a "satisfaction report" after 2 years and numerous patches is not uncalled for I don't think.

For me, I enjoy the game for the most part. I did not buy PTW and will be debating buying the latest x-pak. (If PTW is required, i'm out).

I'm more interested in gameplay patches, not x-paks that only add more civs since I only play as one civ anyway.

I like the game, I don't love it.

I still enjoy SMAC more.

	05-09-2003 05:54									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

PTW will not be required and its features will be included.

In the case where you only play as one civ (a little limiting IMHO, but whatever floats your boat) there might be less incentive to get C3C. Your favorite Civ (which is it?) likely will not be in the conquests. The core game has been enhanced.

	05-09-2003 06:19									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

now that I think about it, even if you only play a s a favorite civ, the addition of playting against new civs with new traits poses alot of interesting and potential fun.

kinda like smax did...

oh gee whiz, i don't know...

	05-09-2003 06:20									#26
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i play as the americans. are they not in conquests?

	05-09-2003 07:09									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

vee4473, I agree is is fair to ask, but if the one doing the asking does not tell what they did not care for, how can we answer? I mean if it was due to no ZoC, that is one answer. If it was due to the combat, that is another.
Most of the posters that were not happy about the game had a few of the 4 or 5 main complaints. I would say 1 or 2 were improved, the rest not. I of course did not agree with their point of view.
So if we are to take them seriously, they should come in and say I did not like X Y and Z are they still the same? Then they can get a useful response, otherwise they really only want to jerk our chain.

	05-09-2003 07:23									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The Americans are still in the main game of Conquests as well as one of the scenarios that has been disclosed. They (for obvious reasons) aren't in most of the new scenarios as they weren't around in the time frame of those scenarios.

	05-09-2003 15:21									#29
	Got spare money?

quote: Edit: I just noticed your sig. Obviously you play AoE 2, however ... it seems you've forgotten all about the blacksmith, the trading market, the university, advancing through the ages, the research at the town center, the research at mining and lumber camps, the research and upgrading of troops and ships ... etc etc etc. Military based perhaps, but you won't win any wars without resources and up to date troops .... Oh, and er, you seem to have forgotten the wonder victory option in AoE 2 ....

What level did you play AoE2 on? University was the only "pure research" building, but the only techs researched were Murder Holes, and sometimes Chemistry. Yes, you had to upgrade your military and economy techs, but it was, well, very different. There was no tech-tree like in RoN. RoN still has the AoE-style upgrades at Granary, etc, but AoE had nothing like RoN's library tech tree, too.

Wonder victory, duh. Of several hundred games I've played, I don't think more than ten ended with a Wonder.

Now, in RoN, you have the options about when you want to attack. In AoE2, you must attack in the Feudal Age, preferrably at a time of 13 minutes or so. Fast Castle is the only other option, but only viable if you can do it really fast (under 15)... Feudal players got too good. And, those battles are the key in AoE2. Things like attrition and diplomacy in RoN do really make economy more important than an army, and make playing without any significant army an option.

	05-09-2003 15:25									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Get into it, it is fun, a bit stupid in some things, but still a fun game.

I hope you enjoy it.