04-09-2003 10:58									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara *cough* Tom DeLay *cough*

I said nearly as many wackos. We still have a few.

	04-09-2003 11:01									#62
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It isn't. When you get a job you have to have two pieces of ID. One is proof of identity. Your DL will suffice for that. You also need proof of citizenship, which means a passport or birth cirtificate or other such document. A driver's license will not work for this.

When you get a job you are supposed to show two forms of ID from a certain list of acceptable IDs. To register to vote all you need is a valid State ID or a driver's licience.

It's perfectly obvious why Davis is pushing this 4 weeks before the election. He wants to register illegals to vote because he thinks they'll vote for him. It's that simple.

	04-09-2003 11:14									#63
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The real question isn't whether California will split.

But if California will secede and go to Mexico

So if Bustamante were to declare California as part of Mexico, what would Bush do?

Not that it will happen. Mexicans don't want California to be mexico. There's a reason they left Mexico. If that were to happen, they'd all leave California to Nevada and Arizona. Actually many of them already are.

It is much better for them to take California by population means, but still have it be part of the U.S. That way citizens can pay for their health care.

	04-09-2003 11:14									#64
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It boils down to Davis is looking down a barrel of a gun so he's going to pander to anyone and everyone to get votes.

How does the legislature have anything to do with Davis? If he could get the legislature to do his bidding, he wouldn't be facing recall in the first place.

Getting illegals to vote is nonsense - even if they applied today, they wouldn't have their photo ID's license until after the election. To get the license or to register to vote, you have to have a street address, and it becomes public record. Why in hell would illegals give a **** enough about state politics to risk arrest and deportation? That's one of the popular racist myths - hordes of beaners flooding across the border to vote for liberals who hand out welfare checks anonymously on every street corner , but actual proof comes up far short.

Registered illegals is far from the most common voter registration and ballot violation.

On the subject itself, immigration status is a Federal issue, not a state one, and the state has already required a number of classes of non-resident aliens to be licensed in California - F1 & F2, H1 & H2, L1 & L2 visa holders, among others.

From the state's perspective of regulating safe driving on the streets and freeways, you really don't give a **** about nationality or residency, hence the requirement that non-resident aliens get licensed here if they're in the state more than a certain period of time.

	04-09-2003 11:16									#65
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yes, but it will get the hispanic vote who is already registered to vote.

Legal immigrants tend to support illegal immigrants. Look what happens with Cubans in Florida.

why do you think Republicans can't get any hispanic vote? The legal immigrants aren't voting for them because republicans are against illegal immigration and percieved as racists.

	04-09-2003 11:22									#66
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat How does the legislature have anything to do with Davis? If he could get the legislature to do his bidding, he wouldn't be facing recall in the first place.

Davis knowns he has to pander to his party's special interests if he is to stand any chance in reelection. The party tried to pass this bill before and he vetoed it, rightly, claiming it would possibly allow illegal aliens to vote. Now he's faced with a tight election and he pulls a 180. Why? Because he thinks he'll get something out of it that's why.

	04-09-2003 11:28									#67
	Remove this text

If anything, this would hurt Davis and help Bustamente, but the California Hispanic vote is not only not all Mexican-American, but it's also not particularly monolithic. You have the same regional and issues based splits as you have with any other demographic group.

What does get a lot of attention from the Hispanic voters in CA is any measure or candidate who sticks out as particularly anti-migrant, because a fair number of folks have the mentality than anyone brown is one of those damn-greasy-illegal-here-to-steal-our-jobs,-our-women,-and-our-money-beaners^TM.

Cubans in Florida are different, in the sense that the issue is a lot more about Castro and sticking it to the Castro regime, than it is about floating Cubanos.

	04-09-2003 11:33									#68
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Davis knowns he has to pander to his party's special interests if he is to stand any chance in reelection. The party tried to pass this bill before and he vetoed it, rightly, claiming it would possibly allow illegal aliens to vote. Now he's faced with a tight election and he pulls a 180. Why? Because he thinks he'll get something out of it that's why.

Or he simply doesn't have the balls to veto anything not sponsored by a hardline social conservative Republican.

Davis isn't in "look for something" mode, Davis is in "blend into the woodwork and hope they forget I'm here so they won't do something about that" mode. All Davis wants to do is keep the candidates focused on bashing each other by not giving any side a target, because the short-memory electorate is already forgetting why they wanted to recall his ass, and the support for recall is slipping in the polls.

	04-09-2003 11:36									#69
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat because a fair number of folks have the mentality than anyone brown is one of those damn-greasy-illegal-here-to-steal-our-jobs,-our-women,-and-our-money-beaner.

I'll agree that issue resinates in the latino community but like all racism it is often over played and isn't any where near as pervasive as some people seem to think.

	04-09-2003 11:48									#70
	Put an end to popups!

No, it's not, but a provocative candidate or initiative can bring it to the forefront, like Bob Dornan's crybaby ***** act about the nonexistent hordes of illegals that rigged the election against him and for Loretta Sanchez.

	04-09-2003 12:20									#71
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

A few months back, a news program was interviewing legal residents and naturalized citizens regarding how they felt about the illegal immigrant problem. One of the interviewed, I think from Chile, stuck in my mind (quoting best as I can remember):

"It took me three years to enter this country legally, and another three years dealing with INS beaurocracy to gain permanent residency. Every time I hear about one of these amnesty programs, I feel like taking a marker and writing STUPID across my forehead."

	04-09-2003 12:25									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

They're called beaners, now? I've never heard the term.

	04-09-2003 12:30									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk They're called beaners, now? I've never heard the term.

That's an old term my friend.

	04-09-2003 12:31									#74
	Support Apolyton

It's more of a southwest slang term. Arizona and California at least.

The rock group Molotov down here has a song "Frijolero" (literal translation: beaner) that's kind of funky and funny. Probably not to most gringos though.

	04-09-2003 12:45									#75
	Remove this text

Interesting. I've never heard it around here (New Jersey).

	04-09-2003 13:15									#76
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Straybow a Mexican DL is valid for use in the US as DL and as general ID.

So if I use a Mexican DL, Ming won't ban me

Asmodean

	04-09-2003 13:28									#77
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless When did the word "illegal" become a noun? There is no such thing as an "illegal". There are people who have broken a law relating to immigration, and there are also people who have broken a law relating to driving without adequate training, thereby endangering others. Some here seem to be arguing that an "illegal" should be compelled to break as many laws as possible. To justify calling them "illegals", perhaps?

Don't blame the "legals", this term was invented by the Mexicanos who are here illegally.

	04-09-2003 14:28									#78
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Now don't go off and report me to the police, but how would I get my gardening done and my house cleaned by hardworking and skillful people for such little money? Back in Illinois where I grew up, teenagers do a lot of this kind of work. Here in California, it is the illegal aliens that do it - and do it a lot better than the average teen in other parts of the country.

The illegals also do a lot of the farm work in California.

They do a lot for us. It woud be nice if we could make this practice legal in some fashion without automatically granting these foreign workers citizenship.

I understand that Germany has the same situation with the Turks. They come to Germany to work, but are not granted citizenship. Very few in Germany would want the Turks to be kicked out en masse.

	05-09-2003 01:07									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why not just make Cali teens get off their asses?

	05-09-2003 01:11									#80
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's more of a southwest slang term. Arizona and California at least.

It's also a MidWestern term.

	05-09-2003 01:12									#81
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: The illegals also do a lot of the farm work in California. They do a lot for us. It woud be nice if we could make this practice legal in some fashion without automatically granting these foreign workers citizenship.

Coming here to WORK is one thing. My father-in-law uses illegals to do his harvesting, and when they are done they go to another ranch and do the same. When the harvest is done (generally about 3-4 months) they go back to Mexico and do nothing for the rest of the year and they like it.

Some stay, and through their agency that hires them out to farms, they are able to get a work visa sponsered, and then after so many years of working on that visa the sponser pays for their citizenship.

No biggie, and that is how it should be done. Yet, Illegal still means they are here without consent of the law.

	05-09-2003 01:17									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk A few months back, a news program was interviewing legal residents and naturalized citizens regarding how they felt about the illegal immigrant problem. One of the interviewed, I think from Chile, stuck in my mind (quoting best as I can remember): "It took me three years to enter this country legally, and another three years dealing with INS beaurocracy to gain permanent residency. Every time I hear about one of these amnesty programs, I feel like taking a marker and writing STUPID across my forehead."

I know there are a few legal residents here, and certainly people here acquainted with them -- how widely is ths sentiment shared?
i

	05-09-2003 11:08									#83
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Straybow This measure is stupid appeasement to the extremist latino lobby. According to NAFTA, a Mexican DL is valid for use in the US as DL and as general ID.

Yeah, a lot of things exist according to NAFTA. Tell US stores and banks they have to accept Mexican issued ID of any kind, See how far you get with that one. My wife was given **** in a Home Depot about using US Federal issued photo ID. The only thing having Mexican ID will get you is a defense to being rousted for having no ID on you.


And the state of California doesn't give a **** either - state law says once you establish residence for 30 days, you have to have a California DL.

	05-09-2003 11:11									#84
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's more of a southwest slang term. Arizona and California at least. The rock group Molotov down here has a song "Frijolero" (literal translation: beaner) that's kind of funky and funny. Probably not to most gringos though.

For sure. Right on.

Cabron

	05-09-2003 11:12									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Che: Don't you have unions to take care of that? Whenever there is the smell of an illegal here in my country, the unions are all over his employer like flies on a turd. Asmodean

How many of your citizens line up to do manual agricultural work in 30-38 C temperatures for 12 hours a day?

	05-09-2003 11:12									#86
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker For sure. Right on. Cabron

Comeme, pendejo.

	05-09-2003 11:20									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Don't blame the "legals", this term was invented by the Mexicanos who are here illegally.

Wrong. They're referred to as pollos or migrantes both by themselves (for Mexican ones) and by Mexicans, referring to them in general. Depending on the regional economy, the majority at any given time are generally not Mexican, but from further south. Far more who are arrested claim Mexican nationality than have it, because INS deports to country of origin. If you're Guatamalan and want to get back up to the cotton fields around Bakersfield, would you rather go back to the US-Mexican border, or to Guatamala?

Every night between 9 and 10, when the Great White Buses come down with their cargo, the passengers are handed over by the Border Patrol to Mexican Immigration, who try to establish the real citizenship pf the deportees.

	05-09-2003 11:22									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Why not just make Cali teens get off their asses?

The 13th Amendment makes it a bit difficult to get them out doing 12 hour days in the fields for less than minimum wage.

	05-09-2003 11:33									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Wrong. They're referred to as pollos or migrantes both by themselves (for Mexican ones) and by Mexicans, referring to them in general.

Yea it seems like I am wrong upon further reflection. I first heard the term "illegals" used by chicanos in the 1970s, possibly in conjunction with Cesar Chavez's movement. I don't know if the term is older than that, but IIRC most other people used more pejorative terms at the time (wetback), or more complete terms like "illegal alien". Anyway, it seems like a chicano term most likely.