05-09-2003 07:13									#1
	What's the best RPG game of all time? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

When I was younger I played D&D, AD&D, Traveller, MERP, Rolemaster and various other roleplaying games.

But without doubt the best one I ever played and IMHO the best one ever created was Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, produced by Games Workshop back when they were still a serious company.

Surprisingly the game is still in print (owned by Hogshead publishing) and has its own up to date fanzine "Warpstone".

WFRP managed to avoid the problems of AD&D (over powered characters, playing off special abilities against each other, the ridiculous combat and magic systems, what's the point of Fighters when you can have a Paladin, etc.) and provided a much more roleplaying, as opposed to a dice rolling, game.

Who could argue with 130 different character classes? During my playing days I played a Hunter, a Rat Catcher, a Highwayman, a Scribe, and a Troll Slayer among others.

And any game that doesn't have Zoats just sucks!!!!

What's your favourite?

	05-09-2003 07:15									#2
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Favorite RPG: RealLife1.0

	05-09-2003 07:17									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Favorite RPG: RealLife1.0

ReaLife never made good Rocket Propelled Grenades.

	05-09-2003 07:21									#4
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AD&D second edition. First edition was more original but it was as well organized and 3rd edition (from what little I've seen of it) is a over powered munkin fest. Gurps was interesting but to complicated to be much fun (Wait, we have to stop and look up yet another rule!) and Steve Jackson's orginial Star Wars RPG had a novel yet workable and fun take on how to play and RPG.

Of course I haven't played an RPG in 10 years so things could have changed alot.

	05-09-2003 07:23									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon But without doubt the best one I ever played and IMHO the best one ever created was Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, produced by Games Workshop back when they were still a serious company.

Warhammer bored me because of the whole switching class thing. Switching classes is the whole point of the game and most people seemed to follow the same 3-4 career paths which made the game even more generic.

	05-09-2003 07:28									#6
	Re: Re: What's the best RPG game of all time? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Warhammer bored me because of the whole switching class thing. Switching classes is the whole point of the game and most people seemed to follow the same 3-4 career paths which made the game even more generic.

It's the players who make the game. We often randomized character class so as to make it more interesting.

	05-09-2003 07:31									#7
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I never played board RPG's, only comsole and computer ones. As such, my favorite of all times was Dragon Warrior 4 for the NES...5 storylines becoming one

	05-09-2003 07:32									#8
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Bard's Tale III.

	05-09-2003 08:06									#9
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Mine.

	05-09-2003 08:07									#10
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Or rather, the one designed by my "company"

	05-09-2003 08:09									#11
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It's a toss-up between Cyberpunk and Vampire: the Masquerade. (Note: more women played when I GMed Vampire )

	05-09-2003 08:18									#12
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They should make a movie of the World of Darkness. That would be awesome. Whitewolf "created" a very cool universe.

	05-09-2003 08:29									#13
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Warhammer sounds good just because of the existance of skaven, you just can't beat skaven. Used to play the war game for hours with risk pieces, legos etc (we were to cheap to buy models) and nothing could ever stand up to my lego cannon warplard jezzels (sp!)

As far as RPGs go I played a little wierd D&D, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition hybrid (we didn't have any full sets of books) in middle school and that's it, and having a good GM does a LOT more than having a good game system if you don't like the rules just **** with them. My two major characters were a demented kobold berzerker and a halfling wizard who only cast magic to avoid danger (ie casting invisibility and running away repeatedly) who later became a gladiatorial manager and a were-hippo...

	05-09-2003 08:34									#14
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my bf's is Xenogears...
at the moment mine is either FF9 or Xenosaga

	05-09-2003 08:41									#15
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The true best one -- of all time . . . .


Finally Fantasy III

those adorable Moogles, and those powerful Espers.

	05-09-2003 08:42									#16
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moogles are in alot of them....i think almost all

	05-09-2003 08:44									#17
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They were never in Final Fantasy I, nor Final Fantasy II.

But yes -- they were in later titles after Final Fantasy III.

Final Fantasy III though, IMO, was the best RPG ever for several different reasons.

	05-09-2003 08:54									#18
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ok..what? (maybe i'll have to play that one..although i do believe 7 is next on my list)

	05-09-2003 08:59									#19
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The use of Espers was awesome -- I also really liked the idea of using a combination of Relics to give your characters special boosts or abilities.

And I really, really enjoyed the story line and its drama centering around the Espers and Terra.

	05-09-2003 09:30									#20
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IMO, all RPG systems can be good or bad, mostly depending on wether the GM is good or not, whether he can weave a good story within the system or not.

After that said, some systems are prone to make campaigns disintegrate into utter silliness, usually of the variety where characters grabbing for power (e.g. magical or technological items), due to inherent design flaws.

I'd say AD&D is very bad for that, particularly the earlier editions. Campaigns just became a linked series of fights, characters are essentially combat monsters, precisely because there were no other skills they could use. If you are good, you can go around and kill orcs (and goblins and kobolds and gnolls and bugbears and trolls etc. etc.) because they are always Evil. If you are evil, it's even simplier, because you can just go around kill everybody else in sight.

Some other systems, such as Ars Magica, were designed to encourage actually playing a character (instead of playing for power). Those sytems are better.

	05-09-2003 09:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger say AD&D is very bad for that, particularly the earlier editions. Campaigns just became a linked series of fights, characters are essentially combat monsters, precisely because there were no other skills they could use. If you are good, you can go around and kill orcs (and goblins and kobolds and gnolls and bugbears and trolls etc. etc.) because they are always Evil. If you are evil, it's even simplier, because you can just go around kill everybody else in sight.

Your players must suck. I think the game has far more to do with you and your players than the ruleset; anyone who needs rules to confine them into good roleplaying isn't a good rp-er anyway. I've never had players that played any alignment as shallowly as that, and usually the people I play with particularly like adventures that call for ingenuity and creativity, combat or no.

I admit that the system does not prevent people from being action fiends with shallow characters, but that's the idea: It's loose enough that you can play anything from hack-and-slash to a very social, rp heavy adventure. Other systems I've played tend to pigeonhole you into a certain mode of play, which I can't see a reason for.

	05-09-2003 09:50									#22
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Sentinel Worlds 1, or possibly one of the Quest for Glory games or Darklands.

	05-09-2003 09:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Your players must suck. I think the game has far more to do with you and your players than the ruleset; anyone who needs rules to confine them into good roleplaying isn't a good rp-er anyway.

Yes and no. The problem with AD&D (and Rolemaster to a lesser extent) is characters gain experience by killing. A player is not rewarded to be a good roleplayer by the book, a player is rewarded to be a combat monster. This flaw cannot be fixed unless the GM heavily modifies the rules. Compare this with DragonQuest or Champions where you get rewarded for being a good rp'er.

A lesser problem that could be contained is the prevalence of magical items - many of those items are very powerful. This can be avoided by limiting the number and power of magical items.

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I've never had players that played any alignment as shallowly as that

When all the Orcs are evil, your character is free to kill them, right?

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I admit that the system does not prevent people from being action fiends with shallow characters, but that's the idea: It's loose enough that you can play anything from hack-and-slash to a very social, rp heavy adventure. Other systems I've played tend to pigeonhole you into a certain mode of play, which I can't see a reason for.

My experience is otherwise. As I pointed out before, there are virtually no noncombat skills in AD&D before, while the list of skills in 3rd edition is sill very incomplete, with some skills too generic and some others too restrictive.

	05-09-2003 10:37									#24
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Planescape: Torment

There's your answer. You can lock the thread now.

	05-09-2003 10:39									#25
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In real life - AD&D 2nd edition.

On the computer - Avernum

	05-09-2003 10:41									#26
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Umm...I like Morrowind

	05-09-2003 11:58									#27
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I haven't played that many pen and paper RPG's.

Of course my vote goes to D&D. I love it, I love, and I love it some more. Sure you get experience from killing monsters. But a good DM will not just make the game a pure monster kill fest. There is so much a DM can do. He could only put 1 monster in a campaign.

I have also played gamma world. But I was too young to fully understand it. I have also played Top Secret. That was a pretty cool game as well. I also played car wars- but that wasn't a rpg in the normal sense. You built up your car instead of your character. But Car wars was probably my second favourite pen and paper game.

	05-09-2003 11:59									#28
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wizardry

	05-09-2003 12:09									#29
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I've only played computer and video games

my fave: Ultima VII, both parts. Loved the story, loved the characters, loved the interaction with the world, loved the plot. Loved the game, period.

2nd place: Wizardry VII. Very challenging traditional-style RPG.

runner up: Final Fantasy I (NES) and II (SNES). I loved the medieval/futuristic mix, both were extremely addictive. Never played any other FF game.

	05-09-2003 12:13									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Edan Sentinel Worlds 1, or possibly one of the Quest for Glory games or Darklands.

Whoa, Sentinel Worlds I is a true classic! Too bad I was too young and found it extremely complicated. But I do have it as abandonware somewhere on my HD...