05-09-2003 22:05									#1
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Is this problem only existing in Denmark, or is this a problem all over the world?

At present time I have a programming teacher, who only knows Java... He knows a lot of java, but not THAT much... The problem is he almost only knows how to code Java... He has a very hard time to even find around the directories in Windows. He doesn't even know keyboard-shortcuts. Every time he saves a document, he always use the mouse to goto the file-menu, then click save... he doesn't know ctrl+s (Can you even live without this shortcut ).
Also whenever he's writing code, and makes a mistake (which he notices later), he uses the mouse to click where there's some wrong code, even though he's only 2 lines below that place
Even if it's in the same line he does this... also if he's in the middle of the line, but have to go to the end of the line, he uses the mouse instead of END, even though the line is very long...


...and don't get me started talking about the IT teacher on my previous school

	05-09-2003 22:08									#2
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An interesting, and rather common problem. There have been a few articles about it here in computer magazines, recently. Most teachers (who, mind you, teach how to use MS Office) are teachers of other subjects who are doing IT for extra money - therefore, their knowledge is minimal. Any student who uses the computer regularly finds himself with better knowledge, leave alone those who are big PC hobbyists.

	05-09-2003 22:15									#3
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It's just that in the case I was talking about, it's not for everyone... the only people who can get through the exams, are people who knows much about computers, therefor it's taken for granted the teachers knows about computers... and it's a full time job...

	05-09-2003 22:55									#4
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I went to a technical school that had this problem. Maybe it's just easier to be an expert in one subject with peripheral knowledge of others when you have no pressing need to learn anything else.

	05-09-2003 23:00									#5
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How much money does a teacher at your school get paid? How much money does an IT expert at a large company get paid? I think you will see where the knowledge and talent will be found.

	05-09-2003 23:59									#6
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Sure, you can't expect them to know everything, but when you know things like programming, it's taken for granted you at least know ctrl+s
We have tried teaching him several times, but he keeps forgetting...

	06-09-2003 00:30									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ADG Sure, you can't expect them to know everything, but when you know things like programming, it's taken for granted you at least know ctrl+s We have tried teaching him several times, but he keeps forgetting...

thats not 'forgetting', thats just having got in the habit of doing it differently.

If he's there to teach you Java and he knows enough Java to do that, I don't see the problem?

Or does it make you and you classmates feel smarter 'cos you know more short-cuts than your teacher?

	06-09-2003 00:34									#8
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I don't use ctrl-s, but then I know nothing of computers, but I do know a lot of shortcut keys... Though mostly those for CIVIII...

ctrl-shift-Q for god's sake!!! That starting point sucks!

	06-09-2003 01:10									#9
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quote: How much money does a teacher at your school get paid? How much money does an IT expert at a large company get paid? I think you will see where the knowledge and talent will be found.

True.

	06-09-2003 01:52									#10
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Or does it make you and you classmates feel smarter 'cos you know more short-cuts than your teacher?

Nope, it's just very annoying seing him doing the same mistake over and over again... sometimes he even asks for the shortcuts, so it seems like he still likes the shortcut to be there...

	06-09-2003 02:11									#11
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I thought similar of my Comp Sci teacher way back in the day, he was 5 years behind his students in terms of what was current technology, I thought the guy was an idiot.

Now (and this isn't meant to be patronizing), I realize he was just trying to make a living and didn't care about all the modern 'bells and whistles', he taught to a silabus (BIG sp.) and when he went home he din't read computer magazines, books or write games like we did, he had a wife,kids and other stuff to do, keeping up with the state of the art wasn't important to him.

	06-09-2003 08:34									#12
	Re: IT-newbies teaching IT Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by ADG Is this problem only existing in Denmark, or is this a problem all over the world? At present time I have a programming teacher, who only knows Java... He knows a lot of java, but not THAT much... The problem is he almost only knows how to code Java... He has a very hard time to even find around the directories in Windows. He doesn't even know keyboard-shortcuts. Every time he saves a document, he always use the mouse to goto the file-menu, then click save... he doesn't know ctrl+s (Can you even live without this shortcut ). Also whenever he's writing code, and makes a mistake (which he notices later), he uses the mouse to click where there's some wrong code, even though he's only 2 lines below that place Even if it's in the same line he does this... also if he's in the middle of the line, but have to go to the end of the line, he uses the mouse instead of END, even though the line is very long... ...and don't get me started talking about the IT teacher on my previous school

You're saying he doesn't know what he's doing because he doesn't use KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS???

	06-09-2003 08:40									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You're saying he doesn't know what he's doing because he doesn't use KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS???

Most people who use Windows on any semi-regular basis remember some keyboard shortcuts.

	06-09-2003 08:43									#14
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" he doesn't know ctrl+s (Can you even live without this shortcut?)."

For some reason, I've always done Alt-F, S. Different strokes and all that, I guess.

	06-09-2003 18:12									#15
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Yeah, but the point is he's teaching CS and doesn't know how to use the programs correctly.

	06-09-2003 18:30									#16
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True. One of the more irritating things in the world is watching a computer user do things "differently" or even worse, "wrong."

I can't even stand being in the same room with my wife when she is using this thing: Oh, the inefficiencies! I particularly like her method of designing charts of numbers using MS Word and the space bar. Doesn't want to hear a damn thing about Excel or other spreadsheets, no, not at all.

	06-09-2003 23:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by MattH Yeah, but the point is he's teaching CS and doesn't know how to use the programs correctly.

Would kinda be the same as if I should teach somebody how to build a treehouse, and I barely knows how to hold a hammer...

	06-09-2003 23:38									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Most people who use Windows on any semi-regular basis remember some keyboard shortcuts.

I thought you didn't use Windows? So how would you know?

Secondly, I've used it since it first came out and the only shortcuts I ever user are:

1) end
2) home
3) ctrl-end
4) ctrl-arrow
4) shift-ctrl-arrow
5) ctrl-home
6) ctrl-end
7) ctrl-v
8) ctrl-c

This is AFTER years of using it too.


Sorry but dogging out the teacher because he uses a mouse is lame. I bet he knows WAY more than you thinkg he does.

He just doing things a different way than you do.

I MEAN THAT'S WHAT THE MOUSE IS FOR. DUH.

	07-09-2003 02:06									#19
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It doesn´t matter how good his knowledge is,
as long as he is a good teacher.

In my Study of Comp Science we had a teacher in the inroductory Courses into Java and OOP. he teacher who led our Group had a Diploma in Electrical Engineering and so he wasn´t directly a Programmer or Computer Scientist, but just someone who had some understanding of the Basics of Programing in Java.
At this time I was already busy develping Access Databases and had knowledge of Java, C++ and VB and it became clear, that I had an Edge over my teacher and the other students in the Group (maybe aside from one othr Student, who also was also actively programming).

But, despie of him being not a Programmergod I think he was the best teacher I can imagine.
He was really trying to get those people, who had no prior knowledge of OOP, involved into the Lessons, by aking them questions and trying to motivate them.
Not just presenting the stuff he had to teach and not caring about if anyone understood anything he wrote onto the board (which is the way, most other teachers at university Level do it )

I think it was better for the Beginners in the Course, to get this teacher, than another teacher, who maybe was a Programming Crack, but at the same time wouldn´t be able to pesent the stuff in the way that even beginners understand it (and gettimng these Beginners involved into the Lessons).

	07-09-2003 02:14									#20
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Well said.

	07-09-2003 03:36									#21
	Re: IT-newbies teaching IT Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by ADG Is this problem only existing in Denmark, or is this a problem all over the world? At present time I have a programming teacher, who only knows Java... He knows a lot of java, but not THAT much... The problem is he almost only knows how to code Java... He has a very hard time to even find around the directories in Windows. He doesn't even know keyboard-shortcuts. Every time he saves a document, he always use the mouse to goto the file-menu, then click save... he doesn't know ctrl+s (Can you even live without this shortcut ). Also whenever he's writing code, and makes a mistake (which he notices later), he uses the mouse to click where there's some wrong code, even though he's only 2 lines below that place Even if it's in the same line he does this... also if he's in the middle of the line, but have to go to the end of the line, he uses the mouse instead of END, even though the line is very long... ...and don't get me started talking about the IT teacher on my previous school

I know these short cuts myself but sometime dont use them and use the mouse, so what? Sounds like he focused on learning Java, and maybe the computer he uses all time is not a windows machine, ever thought of that? If he knows Java and can teach it, what does this other stuff mater in the end? Its not like he is going to go out in the real world and become a programmer.

	07-09-2003 03:38									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST It doesn´t matter how good his knowledge is, as long as he is a good teacher. In my Study of Comp Science we had a teacher in the inroductory Courses into Java and OOP. he teacher who led our Group had a Diploma in Electrical Engineering and so he wasn´t directly a Programmer or Computer Scientist, but just someone who had some understanding of the Basics of Programing in Java. At this time I was already busy develping Access Databases and had knowledge of Java, C++ and VB and it became clear, that I had an Edge over my teacher and the other students in the Group (maybe aside from one othr Student, who also was also actively programming). But, despie of him being not a Programmergod I think he was the best teacher I can imagine. He was really trying to get those people, who had no prior knowledge of OOP, involved into the Lessons, by aking them questions and trying to motivate them. Not just presenting the stuff he had to teach and not caring about if anyone understood anything he wrote onto the board (which is the way, most other teachers at university Level do it ) I think it was better for the Beginners in the Course, to get this teacher, than another teacher, who maybe was a Programming Crack, but at the same time wouldn´t be able to pesent the stuff in the way that even beginners understand it (and gettimng these Beginners involved into the Lessons).

I agree.

	07-09-2003 03:39									#23
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Does it make your d!ck longer if you know coding?

	07-09-2003 03:42									#24
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the opposite from what i've seen

it also makes your skin gray-white-pale and you put on about 200 pounds of blubber

	07-09-2003 03:47									#25
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Does it make your d!ck longer if you know coding?

What is your porblem with programmers? They are the ones that put out the games you play and software you use on your computer. Without Java you could not come on to apolyton and post on this thread.

	07-09-2003 03:50									#26
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He's not dogging coders he's dogging the bs attitude that the obnoxious ones have

	07-09-2003 03:58									#27
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Hmm. As a random comment, I shall soon join the teaching horde, although hopefully I'll be more knowledgeable than the kind you're talking about. Except I really WILL be teaching MS Office, and basic PC literacy. Good thing I got that Comp Sci degree and can explain to people who've never used a computer before why you can't sort faster than O(n log n), eh?

I don't think it'll be so bad, actually. It's certainly better than no job, which seems to be the alternative in today's economy.

	07-09-2003 04:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker the opposite from what i've seen it also makes your skin gray-white-pale and you put on about 200 pounds of blubber

sh!t. I got all that without the coding!

	07-09-2003 04:40									#29
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What, do you hide the 200 pounds of blubber in your room?

	07-09-2003 06:10									#30
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quote: 200 pounds of blubber

Uh, no. My brother is a professional programmer and he ways 170 tops, probably only 150.