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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 05:35
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Louisiana sentence renews debate Suffering from ads?

quote:
By Adam Liptak, New York Times News Service
August 31, 2003

The sentencing to death of a Louisiana man last week for raping an 8-year-old girl has reopened a debate about whether crimes that do not involve killings may ever be punished by death.

There has not been an execution for rape in the United States since 1964, and no one has been executed for any crime that did not involve a killing since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976.

The Louisiana law under which the man, Patrick O. Kennedy, was convicted allows the death penalty for the rape of a child younger than 12. It was enacted in 1995.

Graham da Ponte, one of Kennedy's attorneys, said the punishment was disproportionate to the crime.

A number of states and the federal government have laws on the books that allow the death penalty for crimes not involving killing. Among them are treason, espionage, kidnapping, aircraft hijacking and large-scale drug trafficking. California allows executions for train wrecking and for perjury that leads to another's execution.

Florida and Montana have broad capital rape laws on the books that do not distinguish by the victim's age, though the Florida Supreme Court has ruled that the Florida law is unconstitutional.

In 1977, the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty may not be imposed for the rape of an adult woman. The penalty was, the court ruled, disproportionate to the crime and therefore forbidden as cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment.

Legal experts differed on whether the reasoning of that case would also forbid executions in cases involving the rape of a child.

When Louisiana enacted its law in 1995, a few legislators argued against it based on concerns about its constitutionality. Others wondered whether it would encourage rapists of children to kill their victims on the theory that they would have nothing to lose.

In 1996, the Louisiana Supreme Court, in a 5-2 decision, ruled that the law was constitutional.

The case ended in a plea bargain for a life sentence. Louisiana prosecutors have pursued other cases under the child rape law, but Kennedy's is the first case in which the jury returned a death sentence.

Legal experts say the U.S. Supreme Court is likely to hear Kennedy's case if the Louisiana courts uphold his death sentence.

Kennedy was accused of raping an 8-year-old relative, injuring her so badly that she required surgery. The girl, who is now 13, testified against him. His goddaughter also testified, at the penalty phase of the trial. Now in her 20s, the woman said that Kennedy had raped her on three occasions when she was 8 or 9.

Assistant District Attorney Donnie Rowan told the jury in Gretna, La., that these acts warranted execution.

"He made the choice to take the innocence of those two girls and throw it into the dirt," Rowan said.
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/nation_world_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2420_2223368,00.html

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 05:39 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Is the rapist black?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 05:45
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(ignoring MrFun's post) I think they should send him to a jail where they KNOW he will be raped and murdured.

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Is the rapist black?


To answer this question would destroy the purpose of the thread.

And as far as the question of criminals killing the child, they'll do it anyway if they want to. Criminals rarely commit crimes thinking they'll be caught.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
Emperor
ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 06:26 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Is the rapist black?


Being a Kennedy would be a bigger problem.

ACK!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 06:40
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Rape makes it rather improbable that there's not a lot of DNA evidence. If that has been used to establish his guilt, then fry the sonofa*****, regular, extra crispy, or extra slow, let me jiggle this wire and see what's wrong here, I don't give a fair damn.

Just fry him, assuming there's no doubt as to guilt.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 06:48 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Any sentence in Louisiana causes debate, over what the heck was said.
Damn coonasses.

My ex-wife, related to Justin Wilson, the Cajun Chef, now departed.
"Kook eet lack thees, and it sho be good, I gar-own-tee".

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 06:57
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An ol' Justin was raht, too. Eet sho does tas' good.

Makin' me hungry for some gumbo with extra tasso and crawdads thrown in.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:01 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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You seen how they attack crawdads? By the platter full, each ?
I mean to say, a crawdad lover loves crawdads.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:04
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Yep.

I used to catch em as a kid, too. Dumber than mud. All you needed was a bright metal pin bent into a hook shape, and drop it in front of them, they'd grab on and you just dump 'em into your bucket.

Sava is offline Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:14
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I think child rapists should be put to death.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:16 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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What?!? I thought you were anti-death penalty?
New day?

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:25 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Death penalty is a violation of human rights as far as I am concerned. The specifics of the case is irrelevant.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:26 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
Death penalty is a violation of human rights as far as I am concerned. The specifics of the case is irrelevant.


amen

ajbera is offline ajbera
Warlord
of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 07:32
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My brain says: as horrible and apalling as this crime is, killing the perp is disproportionate to the damage caused. The poor child will bear emotional scars for life 'cause of this f*ck, but she will live, and hopefully overcome this.

My heart says: kill him. You wanna be merciful? Take him for a walk in the prison yard, point to something in the far corner, and put two bullets in the back of his head when he turns to look. Fine. Just kill him, because it's the only way to ensure that he will never, ever do this again.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 08:27
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Killing him won't help the girl a bit. Sure, she needs justice, but is death penalty justice? I see no justice in capital punishment, it is entirely motivated by vengence.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:00
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Actually, we should see if we can scar him for life, mentally and physically. Make it painful. Then make sure he lives a good long time.

Oh, and remove the offending organs

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Is the rapist black?


Do note that he raped relatives, MrFun, so your implication is unwarranted. Thanks for playing, though! You may collect your valuable prizes on your way out the door, that may or may not hit you in the ass as you depart this thread.

ajbera is offline ajbera
Warlord
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Apr 1999
time: 05:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:18
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Across the pond and at the opposite end of the spectrum...

quote:

'Punishment must fit crime': McConnell

Scotland's first minister has said that court sentences "must fit the crime" if the judicial system is to retain public confidence.

Jack McConnell was speaking as controversy continued over the five year jail term imposed on a man who raped a baby girl.

The Lord Advocate, Colin Boyd QC, has already asked for a report on whether the sentence passed by the judge, Lord Reed, on James Taylor was "unduly lenient".

Mr McConnell said he could not comment on individual cases but stated: "Where evil crimes have been committed, it is vital that the sentence not only acts to help rehabilitation but that it also fits the crime and imposes a punishment on the person that deters others."

The Scottish Executive has created a Sentencing Commission, headed by Lord Maclean, to examine sentencing policy in the courts.

The move is designed to help restore public faith in the justice system.

Children's charities have said they had expected Taylor, 43, to be jailed for life for raping the 13-month-old girl.

He was sentenced on Wednesday at the High Court in Dunfermline after pleading guilty last month to rape and indecency towards a six-year-old girl and possessing indecent images of children.

Lord Reed said Taylor was a first offender and that he had been advised by a forensic psychologist that he was unlikely to repeat his crimes.

The offences were committed between August 1998 and December last year.

Mr McConnell was speaking at his first full formal news conference since the elections in May, during which he detailed the executive's legislative priorities.

Automatic remission

Later in the parliament chamber, the Scottish Tories leader David McLetchie asked Mr McConnell on whether or not he would end automatic remission as a result of the case.

Mr McLetchie said that the practice meant the child's attacker would be released in two-and-a-half years.

"Does the first minister think this is acceptable and will he give a commitment to end automatic early release and restore honesty in sentencing in our courts?" he said.

Mr McConnell repeated his earlier statement about wanting to see the punishment fit the crime in "evil and despicable" cases.

At the media briefing, he looked ahead to the new session of parliament and said there would be bills for court reform, changes to the system of educational special needs, nature conservation measures and proposals to tackle anti-social behaviour.

"The duty of government is to stand up for people and the things that matter to them," Mr McConnell said.

He listed those concerns as law and order, a buoyant economy, the health service and transport.

Dungavel reticence

People also wanted to Scotland to be rid of "the twin evils" of sectarianism and racism.

But the first minister refused to be drawn while being asked repeatedly for his personal views on the detention of children in the Dungavel Immigation and Removal Centre.

"It would be inappropriate of me to comment on individual cases because they are the responsibility of the Home Office," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3080436.stm

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:20
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If "the punishment must fit the crime", doesn't it follow that a rapist should be raped?

*skywalker's sick, twisted comment of the day*

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
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Nov 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:24 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT


Do note that he raped relatives, MrFun, so your implication is unwarranted. Thanks for playing, though! You may collect your valuable prizes on your way out the door, that may or may not hit you in the ass as you depart this thread.


Sorry for being politically incorrect.

ajbera is offline ajbera
Warlord
of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Killing him won't help the girl a bit. Sure, she needs justice, but is death penalty justice? I see no justice in capital punishment, it is entirely motivated by vengence.


I'm not going to argue whether vengeance is ever a valid pursuit. I think it is perfectly understandable, but I also understand the places it inevitably leads. It's an argument I'm not going to get into here.

The only truly valid argument for capital punishment is that it absolutely ensures that the criminal will never hurt anyone again. Prisoners can escape. They can hurt others even from within prison. Murderers are paroled to kill again. Well, they can't do these things if they're dead.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 10:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ajbera
The only truly valid argument for capital punishment is that it absolutely ensures that the criminal will never hurt anyone again. Prisoners can escape. They can hurt others even from within prison. Murderers are paroled to kill again. Well, they can't do these things if they're dead.


The counter argument is prisoners on death row are particularly dangerous - they have nothing more to lose. There's nothing preventing them from escaping, either. Certainly you can increase the security of death row cells, still they escaped before.

Also, I believe that prisons should be more about rehab instead of isolation and punishment.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Killing him won't help the girl a bit. Sure, she needs justice, but is death penalty justice? I see no justice in capital punishment, it is entirely motivated by vengence.


It's convenient. Only the bullshit lawyering drives costs over LWOP sentences, and you don't have the waste of resources on someone whose criminal acts are so vile and predatory you can never risk releasing him.

Spend resources on counseling and rehabiliting those who can be straightened out and do something beneficial with their lives.

Just dispose of the rest.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 06-09-2003 11:16
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I don't think I can support this. I have trouble seeing what good will come of this, or of a legitimate societal need to have the rapist killed.

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