06-09-2003 12:35									#1
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As the newly elected Foreign Minister we are proud of the post we have inherited. Though "other lands regard us with suspicion, and perhaps it is time to mend our treacherous ways, the Imperium continues to grow, and far be it for this Minister to criticize that growth.



Unfortunately as you can see, we only have two embassies, that with the Greeks and that with the Americans. Further, though we have discovered the peoples we have come to refer to as the Zulus and the Germans, we know very little of them and the lands they occupy. Until we have embassies with them, and have explored their lands, we will continue to know little of them. Further, we have heard idle chatter of a people in the lands, call them the Russians if you will, whom have apparently taken it upon themselves to settle land which rightly should be land of the Imperium, and while we have no idea where these people are, we desire to find them, to learn from them if we can, to take from them what they have, and finally to destroy them from the face of the planet.

It is regarding these matters that the Foreign Ministry seeks direction from the population. While our most capable Minister of War, Cavebear, has sought your opinions on who we are to go to war with, I seek direction on what to do with those we are not actively at war with.

American Scoundrels:
I will start with the Americans, for they seem to have the opinion that they are most capable of challenging the devine right of the Imperium to one day rule the planet.

As you can see, we are currently at war with the Americans, and though we have successfully obtained new knowledge from them in the past, they currently have no knowledge that the Imperium doesn't already possess. Further, the technology that they are currently attempting to research (Physics) is one that we already possess. Therefore, I see little reason at this time to take any diplomatic action against the Americans unless it is to bribe cities with gold that our treasury does not currently contain, or to take technology that they develop in the future. Vote above on what diplomatic action we should take against the Americans if any.

Greeks Infidels:
While the Greeks are clearly inferior to the Imperium, they are physically much closer to us then the Americans, and have proven to be a nusiance as of late in our war against them. Should the results of the above mentioned poll by the Minister of War favour war with the Greeks, this is what we currently know of them:



As you can see, like the Americans, the Greeks possess no knowledge which the Imperium does not already have (and also like the Americans are researching a technology which we already possess, Mysticism), therefore, what diplomatic action should we take with them, if any?

Zulu Heathans:
Our most wise President Atawa has suggested that the best path to the Americans may be through the Zulus, who are clearly not only inferior to the Americans, but they are also no match for the Imperium. While we do not currently have an embassy with the Zulus, and as a result can report little on them, it is one of the primary thoughts of this Minister that we should retify this situation forthwith and establish an embassy.

Evasive Germans:
Long have we known of the existence of the German people, yet we have yet to find a city of theirs, and do not truly know where they reside. However, we suspect their might to be nearly as great as our own, and as such would like to use their knowledge in our war (with either the Americans, Greeks or Zulus). An embassy with the Germans, like the above mentioned Zulus is clearly a must for our Imperium.

Russian Pests:
Of the Russians we know nothing beyond that they exist, and to search them out would be a nearly impossible task at this point, without a direction to look or unit to follow, it would be hopeless at this point to do anything but be aware of them and to watch for them while dealing with the other civilizations.

Conclusion: What action should our diplomats take?
Currently the Apolyton Imperium supports 6 diplomats.



Two of these are stationed in border cities (1 in Buffalo, one in Ruin) and are needed to defend against counter diplomacy by our enemies.

Three more of them are indicated below (circled in yellow on the map). They are in a limbo land right now, between the Greek and American lands, and west of the unknown lands (of the Germans? Zulus? or Russians?) It is these three Diplomats, and any which are commissioned in the near future, that I seek direction on their use.



Therefore, what action shall we take against our enemies, or indeed, would we be wise to look for a friend amongst those who oppose us?

It is the opinion of the Foreign Ministry that we should continue to war with only one opponent if possible, make peace with the other, and take no agressive diplomatic action against the rest, establishing embassies first and foremost and milking their knowledge as they discover new advances second. Destroying city improvements or investigating cities which we do not currently plan to attack would be fruitless. Having said that, the opinion of the People of the Imperium is what matters most, so speak now, and speak loudly, both with your vote and your opinions.

* Sparrowhawk Foreign Minister

	06-09-2003 17:17									#2
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We should get embasy's with and explore the lands of the Zulu and Germans asap, knowledge is power and I'd like to know what we are up against.

I would suggest keeping the peace with both Germans and Zulu untill we have done this and have an army ready to attack. When the Zulu still believe they are safe from our mighty army's they wont try to stop us from building a highway to their city's, if we do that while at war with them we could loose some of our settlers and waste a lot of units patrolling the area where roadbuilding is taking place.

They should tone down a bit anyway as the effect of their Great wall has run out

It's highly unlikely that the Germans are in that black spot between Atomants Hell and Americans, therefore I believe we will find Germans in between Zulu and Greece.

	07-09-2003 20:01									#3
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*from the secret files of the former president*

quote: The one near Ore his original goal was to go out and find a Zulu city to build an embassy(while exploring as much black as possible in the mean while ) the 3 were going to Greece, to do some mayhem there(bribing would be nice, destroying is a waste of units, the AI can rebuild to easy) the 1 in Ruin should be ready to depart on a journey(America or Greece) the 1 in Buffalo is a defender against obnoxious American units, he can convince them easelly to turn against their former masters.

Shade

	07-09-2003 21:28									#4
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quote: Originally posted by shade *from the secret files of the former president* Shade

Well, there's not much point in planning to bribe US units or cities while they're in Democracy.

I can't really answer this poll without knowing what our plan is with Washington and New York. If we plan on attacking Washington, which is looking to be a tough go logistically, then we should have Diplomats in place to attempt sabotage on the walls. If we aren't going to do that, we can move the Dips to a region where their talents will be more useful. There's not much bribing to be done in Amerika and no techs available for theft.

Making peace is pointless since we are Atrocious. Peace just means we'll be sneak-attacked. We shouldn't necessarily attack, though. A defensive posture, Xin like hell, and in a couple dozen turns we may have Fundy.

I like the idea of nabbing Cincinnati if/when the Americans research a new tech. They may well be faster researchers than us (being Democratic with bigger cities) - they may get Conscription before we do.

Also, has anyone looked into whether gifting techs might help our research rate?

	07-09-2003 21:32									#5
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My mistake - the Americans are now in Republic.

Still, the other points stand.

	07-09-2003 22:09									#6
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taking Cincinnati is something we might beter try to do asap,(although they might seem fast researchers, they are not, they(and we) got lucky going straight for gunpowder and demo(where we had to go of our intended track a few times)) I think it will take some time before they again start researching something of use to us.)
We could then start building a highway to the North american territory from one city to an other(bribing conquering all good positioned cities along the road.)

Shade

	08-09-2003 03:08									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Also, has anyone looked into whether gifting techs might help our research rate?

As our power is "Mighty" at the moment, our key civ is orange, (Greeks). While I'm not anxious to give them anything useful, I think we would gain from anything that gets us to Fundie more than they would gain. And it would bring them to a point where they could research some techs we could steal.

I suggest that we gift the Greeks as many techs as we can dare without giving them the best couple military ones. The Science Minister would have to decide which ones they lack.

	08-09-2003 08:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I suggest that we gift the Greeks as many techs as we can dare without giving them the best couple military ones. The Science Minister would have to decide which ones they lack.

Back to me, hm? Assuming obiwan is still away...

I can certainly determine what techs they're missing - they're researching Mysticism, so they are a good ways behind us.

From that point on, is deciding whether/what to gift a function of the Science Ministry? Seems like more of a Foreign Ministry duty...

* Six Thousand Year Old Man kicks the question back to Sparrowhawk

	08-09-2003 08:43									#9
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The Greeks know 22 techs, we know 44. Obviously there is a lot of scope for gifting.

The more techs we gift to them, the more our tech rate decreases. It won't do us much good to gift 2 or 3 techs - really, we'll need to gift 15 or more for it to be a worthwhile exercise.

The Greeks, unfortunately, are Militaristic/Expansionist. So, we should expect to have to part with Gunpowder, Feudalism, Monotheism, etc.

The other point to consider is that we are Atrocious and at war with the Greeks - they may not even want to talk to us, let alone let us pick and choose what we gift.

	08-09-2003 10:42									#10
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quote: Back to me, hm? Assuming obiwan is still away...

Busy weekend, and I'm still w/out my new computer.

Anyhoo, I don't favour techgifting the Greeks because they will ask for our best military technologies given their aggressive bent.

We can, of course, put this matter to a poll.

Also, if we pound the Americans, our key civ will switch and render techgifts useless. If we were solidly supreme, I would have a different position.

Beware Greeks with guns!

	08-09-2003 14:10									#11
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Poll opened and closed before I saw it!

+1 to peace with everyone we aren't fighting
+1 to a Zulu embassy (and all other embassies!)
+1 to diplomats near American cities to bribe/steal etc unless they reach Democracy, then consider diverting to nearer Greece, yet we must be sure we can get to the US should they drop out of Democracy again
+1 to diplomats in frontline cities

Ignoring the fact it may be more trouble than it's worth with the Greeks being who they are in the game, how does gifting our techs away help our research?

	08-09-2003 19:07									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Ignoring the fact it may be more trouble than it's worth with the Greeks being who they are in the game, how does gifting our techs away help our research?

See the thread in the GL, 'The Key to Tech Gifting'. In a nutshell, the number of beakers required per tech will drop if we give technology to a certain 'key' civ.

I suppose the rationale is that the game makes it harder to research tech if we are way ahead of the key civ. Giving away techs eliminates this.

	08-09-2003 21:12									#13
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Obiwan has got a good point here, after we take out Washington our key-civ will change anyway.

I'm not sure that tech gifting at this point is a wise idea.

	08-09-2003 22:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Back to me, hm? Assuming obiwan is still away... I can certainly determine what techs they're missing - they're researching Mysticism, so they are a good ways behind us. From that point on, is deciding whether/what to gift a function of the Science Ministry? Seems like more of a Foreign Ministry duty... * Six Thousand Year Old Man kicks the question back to Sparrowhawk

This question has been kicked back and forth and back again and I am not sure we have determined who's it is to answer...but seeing as Obiwan, our esteemed Science Minister has already posted a poll I suppose the question is moot.

(but just for the record, I agree with STYOM, this should have been an issue for my Ministery , (Foreign) to deal with) Having said that, I am pleased that Obiwan settled the issue by posting a poll . Further, as I voted in that poll, I think gifting techs to the Greeks would be a bad idea :n:, and I hope that the citizens and ministers can agree on this one.

As for the poll itself, I apologize to MWIA and others for the short time frame of the poll (I used 2 days, starting late Friday night) and was under the understanding that our President wanted reports by this time today so that he could play tonight his time (which is right now my time). Anyhow, as it seems we have more time to develop our strategy, I would like further clarification on one issue in particular...

The three diplomats between the Greeks, Americans and the black empty space...where are they going, what are they doing?

The poll results are inconclusive on this point, and I would like to hear further direction from the citizens on what these three dips should be doing. Neither the Greeks or American possess any techs that we don't have, and we cannot afford to bribe any more cities at this point , therefore, my suggestion is that we use these dips to explore the unknown, to establish embassies with any civs we find there (Germans or Russians, or if we haven't done so already, with the Zulus). Also, if we have embassies with any of the above, perhaps the dips could be used to steal any techs they have, though this may be counterproductive to our research goals (additional techs will slow our already horrid research rate ).

Your opinion is requested and would be valued.

* Sparrowhawk hoping to send the Foreign Minister report on to our President forthwith