06-09-2003 23:56									#1
	Israeli attempt to assassinate all 3 top Hamas leaders fails due to weak missiles Remove this text

Today Israel has got word of a secret meeting between the three topmost Hamas leaders, including the sheik Ahmed Yassin, spiritual leader and founder of Hamas.

Intelligence warned that the building is not empty of civilians, and furthermore there are many civilians in the sorrounding area, and a large bomb could possibly kill at least several civilaisn.

After fast paced negociations between the chief of staff, and minister of defense, it was decided to use smaller missiles with weaker charges, to hit the Hamas leaders distictly, and avoid any civilian casualties.

When the missiles hit, the Hamas leadership happenned to be in the stairsroom and were all merely slightly wounded.

As a result - no one was killed at all, and no innocent civilians suffered. However, all 3 topmost leaders are alive, bruised and angry.


First, I hope this will mark the last time anyone, ever opens his mouth at Israel, claiming that the IDF uses disproportionate power in the attaks on Hamas leaders.


Second, I wish to ask what you all think and what you have done in this case.

Israel risked killing no one of it's 3 utter topmost targets, in order to possibly save several palestinian lives.

This even though, according to the Geneva conventions AFAIK, the presense of militants in hiding in civilian areas, does not hinder the rights of a persuing army to target them. AFAIK the Geneva convention blames all civilian casulaties on the side whose militants are taking cover among civilian population (in this case - the Palestinians).

	06-09-2003 23:57									#2
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You should have used cluster bombs.

	06-09-2003 23:57									#3
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How come IDF never uses commandoes to go kill these guys?

	06-09-2003 23:58									#4
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Because these guys maybe shoot back then

	07-09-2003 00:03									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker How come IDF never uses commandoes to go kill these guys?

Because it would invole many minutes on the ground likely creating "civilian" mobs and many casualties the the pals in the crossfire.

	07-09-2003 00:06									#6
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I'm sure the Palestinians are happy

	07-09-2003 00:09									#7
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Thanks Siro! I'll use this to hopefully impress my Israeli desire

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	07-09-2003 00:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker How come IDF never uses commandoes to go kill these guys?

Because it takes time to insert an adequate number of commandos.

	07-09-2003 00:31									#9
	Re: Israeli attempt to assassinate all 3 top Hamas leaders fails due to weak missiles Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Second, I wish to ask what you all think and what you have done in this case.

With targets of that importance, drop the ****ing building and apologize about the civilian casualties.

	07-09-2003 00:36									#10
	Re: Re: Israeli attempt to assassinate all 3 top Hamas leaders fails due to weak miss Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat With targets of that importance, drop the ****ing building and apologize about the civilian casualties.

No kidding - was there a high school sized day care on the first floor, or something?

	07-09-2003 00:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker How come IDF never uses commandoes to go kill these guys?

We do it in the West Bank because there the entire territory is under IDF control, with outposts and soldiers everywhere. So even if you need to insert commandoes into the middle of Nablus, it is done (relatively) easily.

If you had noticed, since Defensive Shield, when the entire WB was re-occupied, there were no helicopter/planes assasinations in the WB, while before the operation most of the assasinations were there.

	07-09-2003 00:43									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker How come IDF never uses commandoes to go kill these guys?

We do.

Just a day ago an Israeli seal commando was killed in Hebron while taking out a senior Hamas operative. The operative, the military commander of the Hebron wing, was eventually killed.

But at a cost of an Israeli seal commando.

Furthermore, Israel can only activate commandos in areas which are relatively peaceful / under tight Israeli control.

Gaza is not such a place... yet.

Another example of a commando operation:

Just a week or two ago, IDF noticed that Islamic Jihad had set up an HQ on the top floor of a Hospital in Ramallah (iirc). Snipers shot and wounded some of the IJ operatives, who were then quitte quickly admitted to the hospital.

After a day or two, an IDF rangers group raided the hospital, arresting the IJ operatives, and transferring them to an Israeli hospital using a military ambulance. The guards were stunned. The shocked doctors were asked to give the IDF doctors a debriefing on the situation of the IJ people.

quote: No kidding - was there a high school sized day care on the first floor, or something?

not that I know of, but knowing the Hamas tactics of hiding - very probably.

	07-09-2003 00:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Thanks Siro! I'll use this to hopefully impress my Israeli desire

Firstly, make sure you know her leanings. If you go around telling how they should have used more bombs to a lefty... you'll find yourself alone.

Also, I expect to see something in return if I ever lay eyese on a Candian

	07-09-2003 00:56									#14
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Uh oh

	07-09-2003 00:57									#15
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Time for an intense clean up, via the example of Mikey's post OH "

	07-09-2003 00:57									#16
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Why don't you guys just take military control of these areas. And secure them with troops on the streetcorners. Do sweeps for weapons. And if you find people with weapons put them in jail. And why do you have Pals in Gaza. move them to the West Bank.

	07-09-2003 01:02									#17
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I doubt Israel has enough troops to put them at every street corner. + I guess such spreading of troops would make them easier vulnerable = causalities.

Not to speak of the picture it draws...

	07-09-2003 01:04									#18
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That may happen now -- Bush may be letting them take the gloves off.

	07-09-2003 01:04									#19
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Just pacify the territories. Aren't Gaza and the West Bank part of Isreal? conquered territory?

	07-09-2003 01:43									#20
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Generally... I appreciate how Israel tries to minimize casualties among civilians. However, with people as important as these as target, I think that using a heavier bomb that would destroy the building completely would be justified.

And mind you, Geneva convention or not, everyone would blame Israel.

	07-09-2003 01:49									#21
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Serves them right for letting the PLO get away in Lebanon in 1981.

	07-09-2003 01:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro You should have used cluster bombs.

No, Napalm.

	07-09-2003 01:58									#23
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Somehow, I am beginning to believe that the commanders who planned this mission did not have the welfare of the Israeli people as their top priority.

	07-09-2003 03:26									#24
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Please....yeah, cause one time Israel decided not to use too much force, we are never to criticize if they use too much force in the future..wait, NO

Too bad...now this day is only a bad one and not a disasterous one.....

	07-09-2003 03:27									#25
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...because they attempted to kill Hamas leaders?

	07-09-2003 03:48									#26
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Yes, it is only bad becuase they attempted to kill the leaders and failed. It would have been disasterous if they had succeeded. The disruption to actual attacks might last a few months if these guys died, but the organization would be rebuilt anyway..the damage to the political side would be immense.

	07-09-2003 03:58									#27
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quote: The disruption to actual attacks might last a few months if these guys died, but the organization would be rebuilt anyway..

So should terrorist leaders be allowed to live just because other terrorists would still be out there?

	07-09-2003 04:03									#28
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If that means less Israeli and Palestinian dead, YES.

What will end the killing is a political solution, not a military one (which is impossible). All you can do with a military one is let the violence simmer, to boil over here and there. What image do you think the Palestinains would draw of an 80 year old guy on a wheelchair!? If you want to have Hama's support jump dramatically up, by all means kill this guy. Oh, and then invade Gaza and have a bloodbath..and after that, you can have all these endless hunts for Hamas people (heck, somehow Hamas surives in the West Bank with the IDF sitting on it, why would things be any different in Gaza?)

	07-09-2003 05:31									#29
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GePap, the problem, though, is that a political solution is impossible until Hamas is defeated or controlled. The PA needs to clamp down on Hamas as well. That is why Abbas resigned. He could never get control of the PA police and military so that he could go after Hamas.

With your attitude, we should never fight terrorism. We should find out what they want and do it. Right?

	07-09-2003 05:41									#30
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You know... I think I finally understand the Universe in a simple equation:

These same basic polar arguments about Israel/Palestine = Not going to ever go away