09-09-2003 01:39									#1
	Apolyton University Modified Succession Game - Part 1 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As the newly appointed deputy of Apolyton University I am currently pursuing an idea originally raised a few months ago, and then again a few days ago by Mad Bomber, about the possibility of an Apolyton University Succession Game.

This first poll is to get an idea whether or not people would like to see a succession game as an offshoot of Apolyton University. The second poll is in regard to timing.

The way I see this working is as follows…a succession game is a game where many people will play a certain number of turns. Everyone who played would then post in a DAR thread set up for this game where they would then describe their game and how it is going to this point, as well as posting a screen shot and the saved game. Then a poll would be started regarding the savegame that we all believe is the “best” one to continue with. Once the poll closed, then I would post the savegame, and everyone would then play the next block of turns with that game instead of the one they played the first block with.

The primary difference I see between a normal succession game and an AU succession game would be the DARs. These would be posted in AU format as a teaching tool, a “how I did this” as much as a “this is what I did”.

I believe that one of the main stumbling blocks in discussing your game in a DAR is pride. For AU209, 42 people at this point have downloaded the game, yet only about 6 or 7 have posted in the DAR threads. AU209 is a difficult game and I think part of the reason there is a lack of discussion about it is because most people haven’t finished it, or have lost like I did. I personally believe that even if you fail at a game there is a good reason to talk about how and why you failed since it is a learning experience not only for you, but for the people that lurk in the threads and garner ideas. But that’s neither here nor there. People do not necessarily want to talk about a game they played because it is solely “their” game. They either succeeded or failed on their own merits. That is where a succession game is different. Like a democracy game, a succession game belongs to everyone who is playing it, not just one person. When you play your game, you aren’t necessarily as interested in other people’s games because you aren’t playing them. But when you play as part of a succession game interest sparks in the way other people have played their games because you may end up playing someone else’s game for the next block of turns.

Now, I don’t want to forget the tenets of Apolyton University as set down by its founding fathers. Apolyton University should be a teaching tool, which is where the DAR’s once again rise up. Like many of the threads for both the AU games and the normal strategy threads there should be discussion about the game; how to help players play the game more soundly, tips and tricks, etc. The “graybeards” of the strategy forum are well-known for their willingness to help out others with their gameplay. And even those who don’t ask for help can lurk on the thread and learn something when a graybeard helps someone else.

So…thoughts on this? Suggestions? Right now I would just like to see if there is interest in an AU succession game. If there is interest then I will see about setting up the “rules” of the game and a scenario to start with (one with a little less of a horrific start than AU209). I would also like to receive input from others so that it isn’t just me deciding the course of the succession game.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 10-09-2003 at 03:40

	09-09-2003 03:38									#2
	Got spare money?

As you discribe the way it works, the issue I see is that many styles of play will not be compatible with that goal. IOW, if you like to do a builder and sort of turtle, your game wil not look as god as some aggressive players at some arbitrary stop point. That style would need more time to show it true value.
I do see it as a good way to see compare note. BTW, I am don't disagree with you about players not posting if things go bad. I posted all the way to the end in the huge game, even though I actually lost. I remember one game I started and cleared the island I was on and saw it was a small island and no other civs were known and decided, I was not up for the task of island hopping. I had played a few in a row and was tired of lots of water.
Not sure if that was AU209 or MZ game. That plus the game crashed. Firaxis now is saying it is not the game and they may be correct. Either way it has been a real pain to reinstall a few times a week for all their test.

	09-09-2003 03:44									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's a good point and can be discussed. One of the major stumbling blocks is also the fact that if we play at high levels then people who don't feel comfortable with the higher levels would feel left out, while if we were at lower levels then the higher level players wouldn't feel as challenged.

That's why I'd like feedback about this. If anyone has concerns/ideas please post them.

	09-09-2003 04:38									#4
	Tired of ads?

Unless you get a bunch of like-minded people, the only realistic goal you can set for a succession game is early victory. That is, all players agree to play for as quick a win as possible. With this in mind there should not be a problem with diverging goals; it is understood that each player is playing to the best of his or her ability.

I'll gladly participate.


Dominae

	09-09-2003 08:26									#5
	Support Apolyton

YES!!!

Thanks, Rhothy, for gettin this idea going again. MY RL is horrifically busy, but I'll do whatever I can to help.

And did I say YES!!! ?

	09-09-2003 08:40									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And, btw, I'd like to extend an invitation to the lurkers out there...

This is very much an opportunity for newer players to improve their game in a big way, I believe. I think I've posted elsewhere, playing in the two big demogames has been a real eye-opener for me... AU Succession Games should provide the same benefit.

And beyond that, one of the most effective ways of learning / teaching has been posting saves for critique, with vxma1's efforts most recently having been extraordinary... succession games, I think, will be even better.

So speak now... tell us all what you'd like to learn!

[side note and teaser: Can't say all that I want to say. ]

	09-09-2003 12:00									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I take a seat at the peanut gallery.

	09-09-2003 12:17									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I said it on the Part 2 threads, but I'll say it again, count me in

	09-09-2003 18:03									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Though I won't guarantee I'll definitely be around to play every time my turn comes up, count me in.

-Arrian

	09-09-2003 18:15									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Count me in, but with vmxa1 reservation: I (we) hope that builder strategies will also be taken into account.
Question: only 1 level or is it multi-level?

	09-09-2003 18:19									#11
	Put an end to popups!

You know, if we have enough players, we could divide into a "builder" team and a "warmonger" team.

-Arrian

	09-09-2003 19:20									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have never played a succession game before, and I have a bad habit of just lurking in democracy games.

Count me in!

	09-09-2003 19:25									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: have a bad habit of just lurking in democracy games

* Arrian notes the Gathering Storm shield next to alexman's name.

-Arrian

	09-09-2003 20:01									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Arrian You know, if we have enough players, we could divide into a "builder" team and a "warmonger" team. -Arrian

Excellent idea.
Let me guess which team you will join...

	09-09-2003 23:21									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

I'll get in!

	10-09-2003 00:17									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Depending on the difficulty level, I'm in.

	10-09-2003 00:19									#17
	Support Apolyton

Yes.

quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Excellent idea. Let me guess which team you will join...

Have you seen the MZO game? Arrian was definitely a member of the "builder" team.

Having the right map for your strategy is important. We shouldn't field a builder team for a pangea.

	10-09-2003 00:24									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Nor Me Having the right map for your strategy is important. We shouldn't field a builder team for a pangea.

I've already started designing the map. It's not a pangaea and should work well for all styles of play. More testing on it still needs to be done though.

	10-09-2003 01:08									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In the interest of saving time I'm going to post a new thread including the specific people who have said they would play. That way, if we end up playing teams (see the Part 3 poll) I can quickly (and randomly) divide up the people who intend to play.

And for all the lurkers and AU players who have not voted yet, I invite you now to join up. This game is being designed as much with an eye toward newer players and those who haven't played AU games as it is for fun and teaching from the people that have played many AU games. We want YOU!

	10-09-2003 01:40									#20
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Nor Me Have you seen the MZO game? Arrian was definitely a member of the "builder" team.

We weren't really builders, but we didn't fight as early or as much as the other team.

However, given that 4 great leaders were generated during my tenures as leader, I don't think "builder" is necessarily an accurate description of the v 1.14 game.

-Arrian

	10-09-2003 02:35									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Bah, we weren't builders!

We went to war with the US real early (archer rush) then with the Arabs with legions, then with the French (I still remember destroying that 20+ unit french stack which invaded), then with the English....

I think all of us got to do some heavy fighting in at least two of those wars.

	10-09-2003 02:41									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen (I still remember destroying that 20+ unit french stack which invaded)

you mean the one that I let sneak into our territory?

	10-09-2003 02:44									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

yeah, THAT one!

I forgive you. You did set me up well for the US and especially the Arab war.