09-09-2003 09:00									#1
	Trade technologies? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sheesh - where's the FAM? This is his job! 123john!!!

Anyways, I noticed there was no talk whatsoever about the techs that Spain has that we don't, and vice versa.

Spain is weak militarily compared to us, they have a second city in addition to Madrid (Barcelona), are cautious towards us in negotiations and they have 10 gold, Ceremonial Burial and Alphabet.

We have 24 gold, 2gpt, Pottery and Warrior Code.

We have the opportunity right now to trade for either of their techs:

Option 1: Get Alphabet

We can get Alphabet right now if we trade them
1gpt, 8 gold, Warrior Code and Pottery.

Option 2: Get Ceremonial Burial

We can get Ceremonial Burial right now if we trade them Pottery and 15 gold

Option 3: Get Ceremonial Burial and 10 gold

We can get Ceremonial Burial and their 10 gold right now if we trade them Warrior Code

The fact that they are still happy to trade all their gold and CB for WC means that WC is worth more to them than just CB and the 10 gold. We could possibly get more for it later, but we run the risk of them discovering it themselves.

Option 4: Wait until later before trading

3 day poll I guess. Discussion is invited, particularly if you think we should wait before trading. Things to discuss may be: what effect will allowing them to build Granaries (Pottery) or Archers (Warrior Code) have for us? Will Ceremonial Burial or Alphabet benefit us much? Can we delay getting either of these until we find more huts with techs in them? Would it be more useful to us to keep our gold?

	09-09-2003 10:58									#2
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Getting the Ceremonial Burial will not allow to pop out from a hut. Thus we will continue researching expensive techs at 40 turns rate.
And I think we should trade it now because later the spanish will aquire it from other civs or research it for them self.

	09-09-2003 11:18									#3
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I agree that ceremonial burial would be the tech to get before we pop any more huts, and I'd go ahead and trade warrior code for it. They will get it soon enough anyway, being the fast researching/much trading AI civs they are. We might as well get some gold out of it instead of giving up all of our gold. But if we do trade pottery and our gold for it I'm not averse to that either.

While I'd love to get alphabet, we have to give up a lot to get it, and it will be much cheaper later on. Plus if we have CB, we can make our way toward polytheism as that is a very nice tradeable tech.

	09-09-2003 13:47									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In one of my games the AIs had the Polytheism long before me. I have discovered it at 40 turns rate but could not trade it. It was my second research (after IW at 40 turns too)

	09-09-2003 14:20									#5
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CB X WC. We need to trade fast and now, before the spanish make any other contact.

	09-09-2003 15:54									#6
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we will get more gold for the WC if we wait some more turns. The question is how many.

	09-09-2003 17:09									#7
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I say we just negotiate for CB and not give them WC until we at least have some Spearmen for defence. There is a risk they will research or trade for it elsewhere but giving a rival the weapons to destroy us before we can defend against them doesnt seem a good move for a Militaristic people.

	09-09-2003 17:24									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well they won't be able to reach us for a time anyway, and we have the drop on them with Scouts anyway. They will undoubtedly get WC soon, so IMO it's just a question of whether we want to trade it now and get something, or whether we are willing to wait to trade it for more (when they have more) risking them getting it elsewhere quickly.

	09-09-2003 17:51									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

was JUST going to do it, sorry

about the poll, wait unitl later

	09-09-2003 18:03									#10
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No worries 123john, I just hope you weren't offended I did this.... we have sometimes had troubles with Ministers who haven't been able to put up polls because of being busy in RL. I will not do this again now I can see you WERE about to get here.

OK, in truth I was just at work and bored. Forgive me?

	09-09-2003 18:05									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt No worries 123john, I just hope you weren't offended I did this.... we have sometimes had troubles with Ministers who haven't been able to put up polls because of being busy in RL. I will not do this again now I can see you WERE about to get here. OK, in truth I was just at work and bored. Forgive me?

no no its ok, thanks anyways

	09-09-2003 18:47									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Lets wait a couple more turns and see what we find and what they have to give us.

	09-09-2003 20:55									#13
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Trade for alpha and head for map making.

Perhaps even prebuilding for the lighthouse.

Lighthouse just FITS the Vikings...

	09-09-2003 21:11									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think we should give them WC yet.

	09-09-2003 21:52									#15
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Give them WC. The AI will max research and will remain at 10 gold forever. Time only allows the AI to research themselves, and weaken our position. Get all their gold and CB now. With another tech, we may be able to trade for alpha later.

	09-09-2003 21:58									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GodKing Give them WC. The AI will max research and will remain at 10 gold forever. Time only allows the AI to research themselves, and weaken our position. Get all their gold and CB now. With another tech, we may be able to trade for alpha later.

Yep, yep, yep.

The AI will get WC very soon anyway, from another civ if not us. We should get as much trade bait out of our early techs as possible without giving up gold and the like.

	09-09-2003 22:37									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

we don't need the gold right now. And setting at low research rate we will have more gold later.

	10-09-2003 04:56									#18
	Got spare money?

I like option 2. We get CB and gold. We can possibly still trade WC and gold and gpt for Alphabet.

I have we tried a combo trade to get both CB and Alphabet? After we build our second city we will have more gpt available; perhas we should wait till then to see what is available...

	10-09-2003 04:57									#19
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Alphabet is too expensive, remember we still have huts (hopefully). Get CB and 10g for warrior code. Like others have said, if they don't get it from us they'll get it from someone else. Hording techs in the early game generally isn't best.

	10-09-2003 18:08									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We can't ascertain the value of Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial exactly because neither us nor the Spanish have nearly enough money (naturally...).

It is clear that we can only barely get Alphabet with all our tech and most of our gpt income in return.

	10-09-2003 20:18									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

it seems our money is enough to buy the Alphabet (although they want some techs too)

	11-09-2003 03:03									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hi ,

get CB and the ten gold

have a nice day

	11-09-2003 03:11									#23
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I prefer the trade WC for CD + 10 g. too

	11-09-2003 09:07									#24
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quote: Originally posted by The Slayer I prefer the trade WC for CD + 10 g. too

Me too.

And we might as well make the trade now while it is still available.

	11-09-2003 12:26									#25
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it seems the majority wants the gold. I guess we should trade it now because Spain has still 10 gold and it seems they will not accumulate some more turns

	11-09-2003 16:14									#26
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Spain appears to be following the Max research strategy commonly used by AI's. This tends to liomit the money in the game. Unless they disperse a barb camp, I doubt that they will have more money any time soon.

Go for the Gold!
WC for CB + 10g

	14-09-2003 02:17									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

hi ,

, one can woder what they offer to sell to us for that 10 gold and what we have in our vaults , ..........

have a nice day

	18-09-2003 12:26									#28
	Re: Trade technologies? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Spain is weak militarily compared to us

Huh? They should be starting with 10 units or so on this level. Those units are added after their first turn. I assume you checked the F3 status after that point in time.

Are we playing on Deity?

	19-09-2003 17:22									#29
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Yes we are. I can't remember when I checked their might, but it must have been earlier than the 3250BC save, as we are weak against them then.

	19-09-2003 19:27									#30
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Spain is weak militarily compared to us

quote: as we are weak against them then.

I suppose the first statement was a mistake then ..?