10-09-2003 08:29									#1
	Hive-Pirate Negotiations Put an end to popups!

quote: I have contacted Hercules informing him that I shall be taking over the Pirate negotiations. He has replied stating that he shall inform Ambassador Flubber of the change, and from now on all Hive-Pirate negotiations will go directly through me via e-mail. All e-mail exchanged shall be posted both here and on Apolyton for the convenience of Hive members. Furthermore polls will be conducted by myself on both MSN and Apolyton concerning all matters of Hive-Pirate relations. -Chairman Voltaire

All e-mail correspondence shall be posted in the Ambassadors thread on CGN as well as in an individual thread on Apolyton for discussion.

	10-09-2003 17:44									#2
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Volatire, in my previous roleplaying corespondence I invited flubber to a welcoming party. You might want to continue on that roleplaying, and if others in the hive are interesting in writing their sections of the party. That could be included too.

	11-09-2003 03:52									#3
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Ambassador Flubber:

quote: OUT of character for a second but I would appreciate a copy of whatever was posted about our faction in this thread-- The fact that it was out there for others to see is enough reason for me to want to see it on behalf of Peace. Secondly, I have been appointed as ambassador of PEACE and all messages to our faction should be directed to me or be cc'ed to me if possible. my email is sharris4141@yahoo.com. I had been sending PMs to your ambassador and only to others if I received no response. I understand Kody is your ambassador and I will send a copy of this message to Kody

Chairman Voltaire:

quote: The Central Continuing Committee has notified your government the Pirate negotiations shall be taking place directly though me, the Chairman of the CCC. Comrade Kody, though officially in charge of the Commission of Foreign Relations, has other important matters to deal with. Furthermore the CCC has deemed our relations with Peace important enough that we shall be dealing with you directly. As for the documents which you have requested, as a show of goodwill the ad-hoc committee report will be attacked in full. Lastly, to move away form official duty for a second, I would personally like to reiterate the invitation of our Commission of Foreign Relations for a welcoming party. Let us leave the official matters at the door, and simply enjoy ourselves at the party; we can resume official diplomatic business via correspondence. Sincerely, Voltaire Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee

	11-09-2003 03:57									#4
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Attached not attacked. Damn you spell checker!!!

	11-09-2003 04:07									#5
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Spare no prisoners!

	11-09-2003 04:47									#6
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quote: Message to Flubber: OUT of character Sorry about what our chairman posted. He's rather absent minded. We've been theorising about the now revealed pact for a long time. Over the last 15 turns or so we've been slowly collecting data, however it has all been suggestive but not conclusive. In addition to what the chairman mentioned is that link of Drogue's post that I sent in my first diplomatic email. Also we've been watching the login patterns of the members of the pirates and cycon. Sometimes we notice when factions are having important decisions as members start logging on or staying online at times they're usually offline. The last post display to the ACDG forums also reveals when people are posting to their private forums. We theorising on turn holding too. I think the chairman got sick of wondering and decided to actually try find out for certain. I've asked the chairman to run the polls and do the diplomatic stuff as I've a report I need to finish by next week. When you decide on the trading, carbon copy these to me as I may be able to get the turn running again even though Voltiare isn't around.

	11-09-2003 08:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Attached not attacked. Damn you spell checker!!!

Attacked in full too.

	11-09-2003 11:37									#8
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quote: Re: Odd posting Interesting but odd-- our faction has used group emails for our turn by turn decisions for some time now and I for instance come here when my 4 month old son allows . . . I'd love to see anyone draw any conclusions from my appearances on the forum The last post trick was something i was not aware of-- it seems a sly way of peeking into private forums Much to think about I will be contacting voltaire to talk trades quote: Kody wrote on 10-09-2003 17:48: OUT of character Sorry about what our chairman posted. He's rather absent minded. We've been theorising about the now revealed pact for a long time. Over the last 15 turns or so we've been slowly collecting data, however it has all been suggestive but not conclusive. In addition to what the chairman mentioned is that link of Drogue's post that I sent in my first diplomatic email. Also we've been watching the login patterns of the members of the pirates and cycon. Sometimes we notice when factions are having important decisions as members start logging on or staying online at times they're usually offline. The last post display to the ACDG forums also reveals when people are posting to their private forums. We theorising on turn holding too. I think the chairman got sick of wondering and decided to actually try find out for certain. I've asked the chairman to run the polls and do the diplomatic stuff as I've a report I need to finish by next week. When you decide on the trading, carbon copy these to me as I may be able to get the turn running again even though Voltiare isn't around.

What I'm not going to tell him.

- cycon, they leak information mainly through posts in public forums.

- pirates, we know they're up to something when hercules logs on looks around and logs off again without doing his turn. When the pirates got IA IB and IE within 2-3 years, hercules was logging in and out like a husband to an expecting mother.

- university, archaic seems to shun the boards most of the time unless there's some important matters occuring. Whenever something big is going down in the university archaic remains online for hours at a time. Otherwise he logs on looks around and is gone within 30 minutes.

	11-09-2003 11:55									#9
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So when are we going to bring out Pirate University Pact out into the light?

	11-09-2003 12:02									#10
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Not yet, we let them think we don't know, although they heavily suspect we know, but we really shouldn't confirm their suspicion of our suspicion that we knew they knew.

What about my log in patterns?

	11-09-2003 18:47									#11
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That you log in whenever you are not sleeping?

The more interesting thing is your MSN pattern. That you always leave it on when you are away?

	11-09-2003 18:50									#12
	Put an end to popups!

The hive's login patterns and posting is hard to determine.

Because we're online most of the time, and posting all the time whether we're making a decision or not.

Our greatest liability is the embassy forum actually. If someone asks why I have so many posts that don't show up in a search.

	12-09-2003 08:01									#13
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quote: Greetings Ambassador Flubber, You indicated that your operations cap'n would be to provide us with a list of available trading items. I know that the hive has already given an offer, however there is little wheeling and dealing that can be done if we can only ask for the two known techs you landed on chiron with. Kody - the minister that actually remembers the details others forget

	12-09-2003 20:21									#14
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quote: Greetings Honored Kody WE can address your offer as part of a a discussion of what we are seeking and what we are offering in trade. First we are seeking a treaty which we think is only fitting for two nations engaging in trade and commerce. We believe it to be a natural part of the friendly and strong relationship we seek. WE do not seek the Drones comm freq at this time. Quite frankly, we believe we will meet them shortly anyway since it is no great leap to consider that they must be close to you. WE place a high value on commlinks but would entertain offers. Our tech position has been to not trade our maps or doc flex to anyone ( needed time to bury our treasure you see). This has been modified somewhat in that it is possible that we could trade doc flex for the right price. However we know that this tech is not widely known on this world. So if we were to trade it we would seek a 10 year "no trading" clause for that tech. We would accept similar limitations if seeking a tech of yours if it was important to you. WE also have available ind base, soc psych and doc mob. You have offered us two of biogenetics, app physics, and doc loyalty for doc flex . . . We are not prepared to accept this deal at this time. While 2 techs for one is enticing and generous generally , the specific techs are not of much immediate interest and I believe that 2 of them have been offered to us by others on more than one occasion. Combine this with doc flex being the tech sought and we just don't see enough value there WE are more interested to know if you have any higher level techs such as HEC, nonlinear, GS or other higher level techs or the prospect of acquiring them, and would be willing to trade such techs. Such techs would be of interest to us and we could certainly work a deal, including doc flex if that was what you sought. Among the techs listed thus far, we could be interested in doc loyalty ( possibly for one of our techs -- not doc flex) - -- app physics is of marginal interest ( we would rather acquire the techs above it) and biogentics is almost worthless to us ( pressure domes have rec tanks built in) There you go . .. No deal on your offer unfortunately but I think there is much room for reaching a deal. In dealing , we will consider all types of offers or requests including cash, comms, council votes, boundary agreements-- SP agreements and future tech considerations . . . basically anything you might want to discuss . All negotiations ARE subject to ratification but generally I have broached our dealings with the council before contacting you. To summarize, we are looking for higher level tech than that offered and would be willing to deal. Doc loyalty is of some interest in a one-for one swap. App physics perhaps also but I would have to double-check on that one. I apologize in my delay in contacting you and hope that this message has given you a sense of what we are looking for. Ambassador Flubber

quote: Ambassador Flubber, It is clear enough that I am able to continue with my operations. Thank you for your response. Chairman Voltaire may attempt to contact you with further deals. Kody

	12-09-2003 20:33									#15
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quote: This will have to be broached, I'll see what happens. A note even if we're treaty, pacted, or at war. The hive would like to do some roleplaying with the pirates. In fact they're trying to come up with the pirate welcoming party right now. quote: I will be offline for about the next 7 hours, as I have a series of meetings at my job. I will be online a number of times through the weekend if there is a deal to be hammered out. As an extra issue, how does your faction view pacting ? I have not broached pacting with you with my faction so I have no sense of how people will feel but I believe they could consider it. Just something to think about or at least start some new threads about LOL . I saw your analysis and you guys are insanely active in post numbers

	12-09-2003 20:38									#16
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You guys better have that pirate welcoming party.
Voltaire can pass it along.

	13-09-2003 01:13									#17
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I think PEACE is testing us in raising the pacting issue. We should reply with same attitude as they, saying that it has not been fully discussed yet but you believe they could consider it.

As for flexibility, they might be trying to milk us for the highest price, in saying that they don't want to give it out but is possible for the right price. Perhaps we should let them name their price. And hint to them some of the aspects of their interest may be soon out of area of discussion (We are gonna complete quite a few early game SPs so there goes the SP agreements, etc.).

	13-09-2003 03:43									#18
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Check in embassy forum I don't feel like double posting.

	14-09-2003 11:04									#19
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To PEACE from Hive:

quote: Greetings again from the Human Hive; after further discussion and consultation amonghts the Hive governing and administrative bodies it has been decided to formally issue an offer of trade to Peace. We offer Applied Physics in exchange for Doctrine: Mobility. We await your response, and wish to see a positive outcome to these trade negotiations in the hopes that this step will help further the good relations between our two factions.

I've sent this message to the Pirates as per Kody's request, still awaiting their reply to my first communique. Though we are not in a hurry as of this moment.

-Chairman Voltaire

	17-09-2003 02:47									#20
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More word from the Pirates:

quote: Honored voltaire Your messages has been recieved and I thank you fro your gracious trade offer. It has been presented to the council o' captains and we hope to respond shortly. We have heard no response as to our treaty overtures . We see a treaty evidencing an intention of continuing good relations as an obvious precursor to tech trades . Are you amenable to a treaty as part of our good relations? Ambassador Flubber Chief Sweet-talker o' PEACE

Reply:

quote: Greetings from the Hive, I apologize for the delayed response to this message but I received it rather late. Be assured that we intend on pursuing good relations with your faction, indeed we have already accepted your treaty proposal; let this message be formal recognition that our government has accepted your treaty. Sincerely, Voltaire Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee

	17-09-2003 02:57									#21
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Tech-trade offer response:

quote: Honored Voltaire I have been asked if your faction has acquired nonlinear maths or would be in a position to acquire it soon. The council feels that that would be a more desirable tech to acquire. Our preference for any trade for lower level techs would be for a deal being concluded after our next discovery. The idea is to minimize tech cost. WE could negotiate a binding deal now but we just don't don't have a burning need to acquire any of those lower techs immediately. The deal applied physics for mobility is still a possibility ( discussion is ongoing) but our people really hoped that we can deal for other techs. Nonlinear maths or HEC are of most interest. If you fear the spread of those techs, we could agree not to trade them onward for a set number of years. Ambassador Flubber

Reply:

quote: Ambassador Flubber, I regret to inform you that we indeed have not acquired non-linear mathematics as of yet, I have put forth a request to our Department of Development, as well as the Department of Science, to ascertain when we will be able to acquire such knowledge. I will pass on your suggestion of a future binding tech-trade agreement to the People’s Congress and Central Continuing Committee. Please feel free to present us with such an offer at any time, the Hive would be most obliged to consider it. We will await your final decision on the ‘Applied Physics-Doctrine: Mobility’ question, and we are prepared to at any time listen to counteroffers which you present. I will be contacting you again soon with the information you have requested. Sincerely, Voltaire Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee

	17-09-2003 03:02									#22
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We will have a chat tonight (if possible, if not then tomorrow) about the Pirate communiques, as well as what our next action should be.

They seem willing to trade for Nonlinear Mathematics or HEC as Flubber has indicated, IMO they have already refused our offer of Applied Physics for Mobility and are simply stalling for time to get a better deal out of us.

This may well be a cynical outlook on the situation, but in light of the CyCon-Pirate tensions, as well as the CyCon's indication that the Pirates were uncooperative and desired the better end of the deal, we cannot take their word at face value. I will give them this though, they are at least being diplomatic.

-Chairman Voltaire

	17-09-2003 04:49									#23
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Discussions on pirate negotiations should occur in the embassy. This is firstly to let the drones modify their plans according to what we are doing. Also because the drones may be able to point out details that we have forgotten.

	19-09-2003 04:26									#24
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A possibility is sending a diplomatic message to the pirates and requesting that they pass it on to the cycon.

So we can write.

"Do you want to pact?" in 1's and 0's using the simple encoding we broke earlier.

Sure the pirates could break it, but that would just throw them off.

Another possibility is having another shot at breaking their 2nd encoding scheme. I'm certain they're leaking secret information using that encoding scheme in their newspaper.

	19-09-2003 04:50									#25
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Good ideas Kody, I think we should try both

	19-09-2003 08:20									#26
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I'm not sure the first one is a feasible option. What do we want to achieve here? Do we just want to throw the pirates off? I'm sure we can't contact CC yet, no matter through what channel, even encoded.

As the second idea, I would say if we could do it it would be great. But if it takes a great amount of effort, well then it may not be necessary.

	19-09-2003 08:40									#27
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Umm give encoded message to pirates, ask pirates to give it to cycon. I think that's a perfectly game legal way to communicate with the cycon.

The second part is so we can send secure messages to the cycon.

	19-09-2003 08:58									#28
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But how does it differ from posting in the public forum except that less people will see it? And if they reply back saying "yes we will pact", what could we do with it?

	19-09-2003 09:17									#29
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Because it confuses people, and helps to hide the extent of the drone-hive alliance.

People do realise all the suggestions about trading pacts and secret messages are partly to hide the drone-hive alliance?

	19-09-2003 09:26									#30
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Well suggesting a pact (with undefined terms) with PEACE could help hide the extent of the DH alliance but actually entering to a pact may not, especially a long term one. As for displaying our preference of pacting with CC, we have done so to a great degree already and passing secret message through PEACE doesn't seem to me will add a lot to it compare to the public display of our intention. To the worst case, PEACE could get really suspicious about our motivation in doing that and this may actually lead them to think that we are hiding something by deliberately acting in such a unusual way.