11-09-2003 10:03									#1
	Israel bombing victim had just given 9/11 talk in NYC Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Israel bombing victim had just given 9/11 talk in NYC By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI Associated Press Writer September 10, 2003, 12:58 PM EDT JERUSALEM -- On the eve of his daughter's wedding, Dr. David Applebaum sat with the young woman late into the evening at a coffee house, offering fatherly advice on marriage before her big day. Father and daughter were killed late Tuesday when a suicide bomber struck the cafe _ one of two attacks that left 15 people dead. Applebaum, 51, who moved to Israel from Cleveland two decades ago, was head of a Jerusalem hospital emergency room had directed treatment for numerous bombing victims. The U.S. consulate said both were American citizens. David Applebaum and his 20-year-old daughter, Nava, were among seven people killed at the Cafe Hillel. The attack in the city's upscale German Colony neighborhood occurred barely five hours after another suicide bomber killed eight people in central Israel. Applebaum had just flown back to Israel after giving a talk at a New York terrorism symposium marking the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. NYU Downtown Hospital, which is located four blocks from ground zero, said Applebaum had been a main presenter at its disaster preparedness symposium. It said the symposium was the first step in a new relationship between the hospital and Jerusalem's Shaarei Tzedek Hospital, with exchanges of information, ideas, training and education on disaster preparedness and incident management. "Everyone at both Shaarei Tzedek Medical Center and NYU Downtown Hospital are simply devastated by this terrible loss," NYU Downtown Hospital said in a statement. "Dr. Applebaum's example will serve as an inspiration." Hours after landing in Israel, Applebaum, a father of six, met Nava to impart some last-minute advice before her wedding, which was to have taken place Wednesday evening. Instead, mourners prepared for her funeral. As ambulances began delivering the wounded, the director of Shaarei Tzedek Hospital, Yonatan Halevy, was wary because there was no sign of Applebaum _ usually the first to report to the hospital after a bombing. "It was clear to me from very early on that David Applebaum _ when he didn't show up and I knew he was in Jerusalem and he hadn't called _ that a terrible tragedy had occurred," Halevy said. "Confirmation of my suspicions came shortly." Word that he was one of the victims came from a rescue worker who recognized him at the scene. The hospital staff had to cope with their own grief as they treated the wounded. To understand their anguish, "it was enough yesterday to look at the sorrowful faces of the emergency room workers while they were treating the wounded streaming into the hospital from the attack," Halevy said. For Nava's wedding, Applebaum had prepared a book with sayings from family members and himself, biblical passages and marital advice. Visiting the family before dawn Wednesday, Halevy leafed through the book Applebaum would never give his daughter. "The fact that a man flies, three days before his daughter's wedding, to share this doctrine about preparing for a mass terror attack, which Jerusalem hospitals have unprecedented knowledge of, is an example of his combined outlook _ complete dedication, to both work and the family," Halevy said. Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

	11-09-2003 13:14									#3
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Will there be equal time on IDF brutality?

	11-09-2003 13:20									#4
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In the interest of equal time...

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/09/1...a.us/index.html

	11-09-2003 13:21									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Will there be equal time on IDF brutality?

Arent all the terrorist attack threads in Israel threadjacked for this purpose anyway?

	11-09-2003 13:47									#6
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Disgusted beyond words.

	12-09-2003 03:54									#7
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quote: Will there be equal time on IDF brutality?

Oh yes. The brutal ways that the IDF kills innocent terrorists and bombs innocent bomb production factories!!!

Evil evil IDF!! How dare they target innocent ruthless murderers like Hamas?

	12-09-2003 03:57									#8
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Oh, OK, so the IDF is justified when it goes after terrorists. Excellent, I agree, as long as every effort is made to spare civilian life.

Now, would the IDF also be justified in going after people who attack only members of the IDF who are engaged in acts of oppression or aggression?

	12-09-2003 04:15									#9
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That's ironic.

	12-09-2003 04:18									#10
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Israel must hurry up and build that wall. The Palestinains must be kept out of Israel or their attacks will continue.

	12-09-2003 04:22									#11
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The problem with the wall is they are building it on Palestinian lands.

	12-09-2003 04:22									#12
	Re: Israel bombing victim had just given 9/11 talk in NYC Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov JERUSALEM -- On the eve of his daughter's wedding, Dr. David Applebaum sat with the young woman late into the evening at a coffee house, offering fatherly advice on marriage before her big day. Father and daughter were killed late Tuesday when a suicide bomber struck the cafe

This demonstrates so strongly why all this violence is sickening

	12-09-2003 04:23									#13
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Fitting since the Palestinians are the ones necessitating it. If you're building a defensive wall then you make the permiter the shortest possible.

	12-09-2003 04:27									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Fitting since the Palestinians are the ones necessitating it. If you're building a defensive wall then you make the permiter the shortest possible.

This reminds me the joke of the Swiss who only tax foreigners to pay for their army, because the army defends from foreigners...

Besides, Oerdin, it is an impressive oversimplification: Israel needs the Palestinians for a great many low-wage work, and both economies are closely interdependent and intertwined. You can't simply keep all the Palestinians at bay, or Israel will require a huge and damaging restructuration.

Besides, there's a significant amount of Palestinians with the Israeli nationality. I'm sure the Hamas & co could find quite a few recruits in this pool.

	12-09-2003 04:39									#15
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Spiffor: I'm seeing this as a war between two nations so Israel is as justified in setting up a defensive line through Palestinian territory as the US or Germany was justified in setting up defensive lines through France in WW2.

quote: Israel needs the Palestinians for a great many low-wage work, and both economies are closely interdependent and intertwined.

This problem is easily solved by keeping the Palestinains, who have large numbers of terrorists in their population and whom can't be trusted, in their own country while the Isaelis promote the immigration of more eastern European Jews.

	12-09-2003 04:43									#16
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quote: Besides, there's a significant amount of Palestinians with the Israeli nationality. I'm sure the Hamas & co could find quite a few recruits in this pool.

No question that this is a problem.

	12-09-2003 04:49									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Besides, Oerdin, it is an impressive oversimplification: Israel needs the Palestinians for a great many low-wage work, and both economies are closely interdependent and intertwined. You can't simply keep all the Palestinians at bay, or Israel will require a huge and damaging restructuration.

Actually, all throught the 90's the Israelis have done as much as they can to divorce their economy from cheap palestinians labor..there are tens of thousands (perhaps well over 100,000) Asian and East european immigrants in Israel now doing the jobs Palestinians once occupied. This is what allows Israel to shut down all access to Israel for Palestinians without having to worry about who is the bus boy or the construction workers. This of course has lead to a significant rise in Pal unemployment (same was true before Sept. 2000), given that the pal economy could not in it's condition replace those lost jobs.

	12-09-2003 04:52									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This problem is easily solved by keeping the Palestinains, who have large numbers of terrorists in their population and whom can't be trusted, in their own country while the Isaelis promote the immigration of more eastern European Jews.

"large numbers"? Care to tell us the number?

There aren't many eastern european Jews (the nazis took care of that mostly), and most immigrants aren;t jewish anymore. This will certainly be an interesting demographic issue for Israel to deal with: in trying to separate themselves from the pals, they import lost of other non-Jews....

	12-09-2003 05:01									#19
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quote: Now, would the IDF also be justified in going after people who attack only members of the IDF who are engaged in acts of oppression or aggression?

Define oppression and aggerssion.

If you define it to be harassment and cruelty towards palestinians - then I would suggest they report to Israeli authorities. The military police, the high court of justice. Or just call the Israeli press. It loves to cover rotten soldiers.

If you define it to be the normal defensive actions of the IDF or targetted strikes against militant targets, then I inform you that I consider these actions on behalf of the IDF to be both legitimate and justified.

If the pals were only to target Israeli government and military, they would earn the possibility not to be considered terrorists.

	12-09-2003 13:20									#20
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quote: If you define it to be harassment and cruelty towards palestinians - then I would suggest they report to Israeli authorities. The military police, the high court of justice. Or just call the Israeli press. It loves to cover rotten soldiers.

OK, so if armed soldiers are harrassing you and displaying cruelty towards you and others around you, are you saying you don't think you should have the right to resist?

quote: If the pals were only to target Israeli government and military, they would earn the possibility not to be considered terrorists.

I agree - this is what they should do. Target ONLY these targets - stop intentionally killing civilians.

quote: If you define it to be the normal defensive actions of the IDF or targetted strikes against militant targets, then I inform you that I consider these actions on behalf of the IDF to be both legitimate and justified.

Then again, I don't consider the state of Israel legitimate or justified, so your arguments about strikes against Palestinian military targets sound sorta like aggression to me - that is, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place if there was no state of Israel, and the problem would be much reduced if Israel would get out of the territories they have conquered over the years.

	12-09-2003 13:31									#21
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They can get Jews from other countries but mostly they need to increase their birth rate. World Jewish population by country:

quote: United States 5,800,000 Israel 4,847,000 France 600,000 Russia 550,000 Ukraine 400,000 Canada 360,000 United Kingdom 300,000 Argentina 250,000 Brazil 130,000 South Africa 106,000 Australia 100,000 Hungary 80,000 Belarus 60,000 Germany 60,000 Mexico 40,700 Belgium 40,000 Italy 35,000 Uzbekistan 35,000 Venezuela 35,000 Uruguay 32,500 Azerbaijan 30,000 Moldova 30,000 Netherlands 30,000 Iran 25,000 Turkey 25,000 Sweden 18,000 Switzerland 18,000 Georgia 17,000 Chile 15,000 Kazakhstan 15,000 Latvia 15,000 Romania 14,000 Spain 14,000 Austria 10,000 Denmark 8,000 Poland 8,000 Morocco 7,500 Hawaii, USA 7,000 Panama 7,000 Czech Republic 6,000 India 6,000 Lithuania 6,000 Slovakia 6,000 Colombia 5,650 Greece 5,000 New Zealand 5,000 Kyrgyzstan 4,500 Bulgaria 3,000 Estonia 3,000 Peru 3,000 Puerto Rico 3,000 Costa Rica 2,500 Hong Kong 2,500 Yugoslavia 2,500 Croatia 2,000 Japan 2,000 Tunisia 2,000 Tajikistan 1,800 Norway 1,500 Guatemala 1,200 Finland 1,200 Paraguay 1,200 Turkmenistan 1,200 Cuba 1,000 Ecuador 1,000 Ireland 1,000 Monaco 1,000 Zimbabwe 925 Portugal 900 Yemen 800 Bosnia-Herzegovina 600 Gibraltar 600 Luxembourg 600 Ethiopia 500 Kenya 400 Netherlands Antilles 400 US Virgin Islands 400 Bolivia 380 Zaire 320 Jamaica 300 Singapore 300 Dominican Republic 250 Philippines 250 Syria 250 Thailand 250 Armenia 200 Bahamas 200 Suriname 200 South Korea 150 El Salvador 120 Iraq 120 Tahiti 120

	12-09-2003 13:32									#22
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Still, killing 25 million Jews 60 years ago represented the vast majority of the world's Jewish population.

	12-09-2003 13:36									#23
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Now, why does someone count the amount of jews in countries?
The purpose?

	12-09-2003 13:36									#24
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I found the figures here:
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

The Jewish Virtual library which is run by the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise. What ever that is.

	12-09-2003 13:37									#25
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quote: Now, why does someone count the amount of jews in countries? The purpose?

To know how many Jews live in those countries?

	12-09-2003 20:17									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Still, killing 25 million Jews 60 years ago represented the vast majority of the world's Jewish population.

25 million? How you get that number, champ? 5.9 million Jews died in the Holocaust (plus four to five million others).