11-09-2003 17:51									#1
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We are currently researching Fundi(estimated time to finish: 10 to 15 turns= this session most probably)

The question remains: when we decide to become Fundi what will we do with our Xin-cities?

Keep Xinning for science or figure out a beter way to get our science beakers?
Keep Xinning for Gold?
Stop the Xinning tactic 100% and let our cities grow strong?
Stop the Xinning partially(ie leave some cities Xinning for gold)

An other question:
Will we build a super highway to america?
starting from our west front to idefix and then on to america.
should we build cities (or bribe/capture) cities along this road to secure it?(since we are at war with the Zulu, their cities on our path would be usefull , but then again this is a demand you should send to our SMC)

you have 3 days

Shade

	11-09-2003 18:23									#2
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an image of how our superhighway could go.

the dot suggests we build a city there(in that area, maybe and advanced tribe from the hut(or nomad) if we are lucky)

Attachment: roads2.jpg
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	11-09-2003 22:46									#3
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I would like to stop Xinning after Fundi, grow our core a bit and build units.
We realy need to Xin for fundi or the game will never end but it is exploiting a bug in the game

I like the highway plan to Americans a lot

I was planning a new city on A with the settler (We have 2 walking in from the NW building the road)Dending on the outcome of the Foreign and Military polls we might considder making the extension marked in blue. with a possible citysite on B. (Depending on what specials our explorers find)

Attachment: roads3.jpg
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	12-09-2003 03:21									#4
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So far, the majority of people think we should stop Xinning after Fundy.

This is the road to disaster. We NEED RR and Explosives ASAP, and we need to be able to get a better offensive unit (e.g. Cavalry), and without Xinning our science will come to a screeching halt.

I urge anyone who votes on the poll to consider this before choosing to halt our Xinning.

	12-09-2003 09:23									#5
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No!

Stop the xin, crank up cash and luxuries so that we celebrate under a fundamentalism



We can build temples/marketplaces/libraries/barracks using the tithes from Fundy.

After we have upgraded our city infrastructure, then we can xin for science. It doesn't take long at all, if done properly.

	12-09-2003 19:45									#6
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Science rate is halved while Xinning in Fundy. It's not as good a strategy in Fundy for that reason, and also because corruption stops being an issue.

to Ben's plan for celebrating Fundy... assuming we can actually make it work. Marketplaces would help a lot, there. We could struggle through to Explosives/RR with a high science rate in Fundy, that way (although high science in Fundy= ).

Otherwise... just crank out units and overwhelm the terrain, and our enemies.

	12-09-2003 19:53									#7
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what are the effects of celebrating under Fundi?
--> trade as Republic?
--> fx as Demo?

	12-09-2003 19:57									#8
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There is a good chance we can at some point steal both steam and RR from Americans.

With our Engineers building RR and instant forts I believe we dont need Cavalry to take over our opponents.

(Even American riflemen, upgraded so no vets, should be easy pray for our vet cannons

	12-09-2003 19:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by shade what are the effects of celebrating under Fundi? --> trade as Republic? --> fx as Demo?

We get the extra tradearrow as in Rep or Demo.

What do you mean by fx?

	12-09-2003 21:33									#10
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The question is, will the extra trade arrow make up for the fact that we will have to jack up luxuries like mad in order to celebrate? We might make more money just having high taxes.

	12-09-2003 21:40									#11
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Yes, it turns our fundamentalism into a non-celebrating democracy.

The cost will be higher in luxuries, as we do not have any happiness wonders.

Mike's Chapel would really help at this point, so we ought to sponsor an 'expedition' to 'encourage' the city to 'unite' with their brothers in our glorious Imperium.

CannonFodder:

Yes, but we need the extra trade to increase our science productivity. If we can double our trade while less than halving our taxes, than we earn more cash than we would otherwise.

We can finance a fundy with - 10% tax, with the rest of the cash going to science and luxuries. The trick requires lots of cities, all with temples and marketplaces to churn out cash.

	13-09-2003 08:19									#12
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Tweaking the tax/sci/lux sliders when we get into Fundy will probably make the decision on whether to celebrate, much easier.

Remember (I'm sure you all know this) that once we get the celebration started, we can usually turn luxuries down a notch or 2 the following turn.

A lot of factors will come into play here. Corruption essentially vanishes, so all those lost shields and arrows come back into play. That factor, along with the (for all intents and purposes) free unit support should give us some huge production capacity.

Right now in Monarchy we have 70% tax, 30% sci and 0% luxuries. In Fundy, we could turn tax down to 0% and still run at a profit, thanks to tithes and the free support for Temples. That leaves 100% to be doled out between Science and Lux. Going from 30% to 50% in science would just about offset the 50% reduction in science output (Fundy feature) since we'd also benefit from a lot of arrows presently lost from corruption. And I expect a size 5 city could *maintain* celebration at 50% lux (assuming 6 roaded tiles or river = 6 trade arrows, or 6 luxury units when celebrating, enough to make 3 citizens happy. We'd need higher lux at first to start the celebration.). If the city celebrates... then the science output doubles. Of course, in a normal game, you never never never have any kind of a science rate in Fundy, because it's more cost effective to have a high tax rate, rush Caravans, and get your science through trade, where the halving of science has no effect. No 'vans in this game... oh well...

	13-09-2003 16:57									#13
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quote: Originally posted by atawa What do you mean by fx?

+1 growth.
(never play fundi, so I have no clue)

	13-09-2003 17:49									#14
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There is no +1 growth, thats only in Rep or Demo.

	14-09-2003 16:29									#15
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Superhighway to America sounds good, if there are the settlers close by that can be used without detracting from other projects. If this is planned then OK.

Getting to Fundy to use the cash to up our infrastructure will be the first most important thing to do. Second will be to secure some happiness wonders (at least one). Once we have the infrastructure up we have some choice - stay Fundy, celebrate and/or Xin for Science, or go Rep/Demo. It may be possible to maintain once we have the infrastructure built.

For the moment - head for Fundy Xinning for science as hard as we can that still provides a pool of at least a few hundred for bribing and rushing defenders.

	15-09-2003 17:02									#16
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We have forbidden ourselves the advantages of representative governments.

	15-09-2003 18:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear We have forbidden ourselves the advantages of representative governments.

Rep/demo would also be a problem because we want to wage war and conquer the world.
(I think after we get Fundi, and develop ourself to something that actually can be considered a civ , we might consider trying to go for Communism,to get rid of the science handicap)

	15-09-2003 19:43									#18
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quote: we might consider trying to go for Communism,to get rid of the science handicap)

Been there, done that.

Let's try to get science under a Fundy government without camels.

	16-09-2003 06:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear We have forbidden ourselves the advantages of representative governments.

We did? I just thought they were regarded as impractical for a conquest scenario like this.

	16-09-2003 07:01									#20
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I thought so too, though I was not around in the start of the game, i did go back and read a lot of the threads, and I thought that it just didn't make as much sense to switch to either of the representative government when we have so many units, and so many of them in the field (which would cause massive unhappiness). I specifically remember a debate (started by shade I beleive) where we had republic but had not yet discovered monarchy, and for a while, it was discussed whether to switch to republic or not. (the idea was discarded, as we couldn't support the units we already had under republic).

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	17-09-2003 01:04									#21
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We had a poll, that I did that the people decided to go for a Fundamentalist government.

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...&threadid=91948

Communism was an option, and rejected in favour of Fundamentalism.

	17-09-2003 05:45									#22
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I've gone back and looked at past threads for an hour, and appears we did NOT forbid ourselves the use of representative governments. I really thought we had, but government was not included in the original "restrictions" poll. There was some early discussion about it, but it didn't become anything formal.

Unless we want to decide to make that restriction now, we can always consider Republic or Democracy in the future.

	17-09-2003 08:09									#23
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Then can we use this turn (assuming it's the same turn we reached Fundy) to check what happens in Rep and Demo by switching Governments within the one turn? We will come back to Fundy, of course, but it could be instructive to have some info about how badly our civ needs happiness in these two Govts, and also how much more cash we might make if we were to reach them one day.

	17-09-2003 08:21									#24
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I'd rather stick with all those people who voted Fundy. Give them a chance to see their government in action.

Surely we ought to honor the earlier poll.

	17-09-2003 08:36									#25
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FUNDY

All the science we need, we can take by force.

	17-09-2003 09:16									#26
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I agree we should stick with Fundy, but if the time should be right later on (like when we don't have any units in the field ) then I don't think we should rule out democracy (after a vote of course).

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	17-09-2003 09:36									#27
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I wouldn't recommend Demo without capturing happy wonders. Without trade routes, getting sustained celebrations to happen will be almost impossible. There's no ocean to speak of on the map, so arrows are hard to come by.

	17-09-2003 09:44									#28
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Communism, on the other hand, might be a compromise in the long run. Decent science, martial law to keep the peace, and celebrations a possibility (though hard to achieve without trade)

	18-09-2003 04:21									#29
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I consider Fundie only a way to solve some long-developing problems while we have units in the field. Communism will be the best thing for us in the long-term, but Fundie sure beats Monarchy for the present time!