 |
|
G'Kar
|
|
St. Louis, USA
Aug 2003
time: 23:30
|
|
Defcon5 DAR:
4000-Mecca founded
~3600-warrior from hut
3400-meet Carthage and receive Masonry for Cer. Bur., Pottery, and 14g.
3350-warrior from hut
3300-chg production from settler to temple with 6 turns remaining until size 3 is reached (temple built next turn)
3200-meet America
3150-25g from hut
3100-my guys discover bronze working, I start on warrior code
3050-the wheel from hut
2900-meet Japan, I give masonry for warrior code and 10g. I give the wheel and 8g to Carthage for Alphabet.
2710-Medina founded. Mathematics from hut.
2310-Mecca builds barracks
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
I'll give a few comments on each game, then my "verdict". Sorry if I sound "high horse"-ish with some of these...I'm very open to disagreement. 
---
Tarquinius
Pluses:
1. Picked a cheap tech to research early (Bronze Working) in order to get more expensive techs from Goody Huts. The other options (as I see it) were Warrior Code (same price) or Mysticism. As a Religious civ, a beeline along the Monarchy branch keeps your options open (for a quick transition to Monarchy) and provides you with good trade bait in the form of Polytheism. Going for Mysticism early is a gamble but a good one, despite its higher cost and therefore the lower probability of getting an expensive tech from a Hut. A choice of either Bronze Working or Warrior Code is more conservative, but still very good.
2. Constructed Granary in Mecca. This is almost a picture-perfect start for building a Granary; the high Food and high Shield output of the starting location makes constructing one an easy venture, and it pays off very quickly after that.
3. Built a Scout first. Unless you have very good reason to believe you're on a small island, you should always build a Scout first when playing an Expansionist civ. It's the trait's only advantage (other than starting with Pottery, but that's not such a big deal)!
Minuses:
1. Researched Mathematics. When you're ahead in tech, it's good to have a goal to strive toward (preferably a goal that will improve your position!). Mathematics does not fit into any goal/plan that I can think of (Catapults?). It's value as trade bait is, normally very important, is downplayed here by your strong relative position in tech. Heading for one of the governements would have been better.
2. Founded Medina on a Flood Plains. I know Flood Plains sometimes caused Disease and therefore suck, but the power of their high Food output easily outweighs this nuisance. By exploiting both Flood Plains you would ultimately have more flexibility, as you can always translate that bonus Food into Shields by working Forets tiles. Later on when out of Despotism, Flood Plains produce 4 Food, which adds even more flexibility to your city.
3. Founded Damascus without Worker support. When possible, it's always good to have at least one Worker "around" every new city in order to keep up on tile improvements (a reason close city-spacing is so good, because your Workers can be "around" many cities at once). In your screenshot, Damascus is helping out militarily, but is working unimproved tiles and is therefore being inefficient. It would be better to build a Worker there before the Spearmen.
4. Popped out Warriors before a Temple. There is little reason to be so afraid of Barbs so early in the game and at this difficulty. The earlier you build a Temple, the more impressive its Culture will be later on: those first few turns span thousands of years! Also, a Temple allows a Settler "pump" city to grow bigger without the help of the Lux slider.
Overall: Very good game. Do not sell yourself short, Tarquinius!
---
I'll be briefer with the comments from now on, since many of them will be repeated.
---
vmxa1
Pluses:
1. Used the Expansionist trait to its fullest. Wow, four Scouts! You must really like those dudes! I think that number is usually a bit excessive (considering your chances of getting Conscripts from Huts), but on this map it surely pays off, with so many Huts to grab.
2. Constructed an early Temple. You sure know how to use your traits!
Minuses
Generally I feel that you did not put as much into this game as you potentially could, vmxa1. You're probably overtired from helping Firaxis...
1. Omitted building a Granary in the capital. Like I said above, I think this is a great start for a Granary, no matter what your goal is.
2. Researched Alphabet first. It's the most expensive first tier tech! I guess it's plausible to want to get to The Republic really fast, but I still think the better play is to research a low cost tech in order to get a higher cost one from a Hut.
3. Founded Baghdad a little too far. Are you planning to backfill later, or do you want an extra challenge by using a loose spacing? The vast distance between your cities just puts extra burden on your Workers.
4. Neglected to trade with neighbors. A few early trades never hurt, especially when you're still the only one with all contacts and the clock is ticking.
Overall: Not sure...not a lot of info to work with. Try playing when less tired!!
(By the way, vmxa1, the autosave files are quite a bit bigger than the manual saves. The game does some compression when creating the latter.)
---
I'm spending a lot of time on these because I think that the early-game is the most important part of the game...we have to help each other get it right!
---
Mountain Sage
Pluses:
1. Started out with a strategy before even playing a single turn. I'm not sure if this is actually what happened, but the report tells it this way and I'm inclined to believe it. It's always good to know where you're going even before moving that first unit. A little plan shows that you're thinking beyond the turn-by-turn.
2. Constructed an early Granary in the capital.
3. Traded with other civs efficiently. Not so important on Monarch (as I've learned), but still a good thing to do.
Minuses:
1. Queued up a Worker before a Granary in the capital. The Shield output is high enough at the start spot to be able to build some Scouts and a Granary without much loss to unimproved tiles. You seem to like having Workers build Roads long before these get used. I like the idea of building Roads to your future city-sites, but I think Food/Shield efficiency takes precedence.
2. Spent Worker-turns improving a Hills tile. A Hills tile takes 19 Worker-turns (non-Industrious) to improve. Yet a Forest yields just as much without improvement (ok, maybe 4 turns to put a Road on it). Heck, even putting a Mine on a Plains tile is equivalent, and again takes less time.
3. Garrisoned cities too early. In your screenshot, you have military units in cities that are still size 2. Why not move them away from your city in order to get an advance warning of Barb attack or AI troop movement? Information like that is, to me, worth at least one notch in the Lux slider early on.
Overall: Nice to see at work, Mountain Sage! Too bad you got a free city in such a remote location. Again, I must comment that I like that way you plan things ahead of time.
---
How many more?
---
ZargonX
Pluses:
1. Constructed a Granary in the capital. What, may I ask, did you build before the Granary?
2. Traded efficiently and early with other civs. See above.
3. Efficient use of Workers. From your screenshot it looks like you're making good use of your Worker-turns: connecting cities, improving tiles as needed for each city, etc.
Minuses:
1. Sent first Scout South. There be Jungle down there, boy! When other options are readily available, Scouts should avoid treacherous terrain. On this map, going South works out somewhat because you can block the Carthaginians via the isthmus. But generally you want to avoid Jungle and search out those Huts!
2. Researched Alphabet first. See above.
3. Lost a Shields to a Barb attack. Just kidding!
Overall: Not much to comment on here, either. It looks like you're in control of this game, but mostly I'm inferring this from the screenshot.
---
One more!
---
Defcon5
Welcome!
Pluses:
1. Completed a Temple early on. If you're going to build a Temple as a Religious civ, it might as well be before the Barbs really get in your hair.
2. Traded early with other civs. See above.
3. Researched Bronze Working first. See above. Bronze Working first and Warrior Code next is the best way for the Arabs to get the highest profit out of Huts.
4. Identified the strategic importance of the isthmus. I'm quite surprised that you're the only one to have mentioned this in this team!
Minuses:
1. Omitted building a Granary in the capital. See above.
2. Switched production from Settler to Temple. Why did you do this? If you're not going to build a Granary, you want those Settlers out ASAP (i.e. every time your cities reach size 3).
3. Missed a Hut. As an Expansionist civ, there is no reason to not pop a Hut that you've spotted if you've got a free unit standing around. There might be a free Settler under that Hut!
4. Mined a Plains with Cattle tile. As pointed out somewhere else, this provides no benefit under Despotism. Better to put Irrigation on both.
5. Garrisoned cities too early. See above.
Overall: Not bad at all, but there's a couple of basic things you need to pick up (and you'll pick up quick if you keep playing this game!).
---
General comments:
All the games were well done, IMO. But there is still room for improvement, which is good, because that's the point. 
Only Mountain Sage seems to be focusing on the Spaceship goal, with his plans of reaching Literature and Libraries as quickly as possible. It's hard to plan so far ahead, but think Mountain Sage has the right idea.
However, I like Tarquinius' execution better. He's covered all the basics (Granary, exploration, tech trading, defense), and has a city placement that is very amenable to an efficient empire (it's RCP...hey! I missed that the first time around, nice work Tarq!).
---
Final vote: Tarquinius
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
vmxa1
|
 |
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:30
|
|
Nice job Dom.
Counterpoints:
I would agree it is usually wise to take an easy to research tech to start. I was expecting to get some quick contact trades and huts, so I figured that Alpa was
one that would be harder to trade for, but it was just a shot. Anyway I figured I would never finish researcing, but if I did it would be fine.
Trading, I did a bit, but really they had no money and I will confess I just don't bother most of the time.
I reread my post and I find three trades. I reread yours and you only mention one.
The last one found (Carth) has the most money and I would make a check on them at about this point.
I am actually hoping to see the light via the run, but I doubt its value. Maybe it is due to my lack of timing, but if it requires checking every turn, count me out.
Granary, well I am not convinced it is required in this setting, but I could be wrong. I suspect the town will generate units fast enough.
Spacing:
Well this is monarch and I am going for a SS, so I want the first 3 or 4 cities with at least 19 tiles. From the quick look at the mod, it looks like space parts will be even harder to build than normal.
The other consideration is that the advance tribe forced me to try to fill in right away. This is where getting a settler may have been better.
I see my closest civs being USA and it has a late UU, so I will have time for them. I see Carth is going to be strangled, so I am not worried about them.
So I will confess to rushing the game a bit, but really I am happy with 4 cities and 1 lux hooked up and will soon have the door slamed shut on Carth.
Last edited by vmxa1 on 17-09-2003 at 21:13
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
My DAR for the last 10 rounds:
2390BC: Damascus built its Worker; it will head east, escorted by a warrior. Now it will build 2 more warriors to keep the Barbs in check..
2350BC: Granary built in Mecca, time for a Spearman+Settler. I hesitated finishing the granary instead of building a Settler strait away, but now I can crank out a whole S+S in less than 10 turns.
Medina got a mine, its Worker will head for the furs. Medina’s Settler will then build the next city on it (we lose 1 turn, I know).
2310BC: our S Warrior is recalled back and now blocks the isthmus. Carthage will be isolated for another while…
2230BC: the Spearman in Mecca is done; we disbanded a Scout and gained 1 turn; in 3 turns our S+S team will be ready to march upon our new road. The N Worker was recalled back; now it’s roading and irrigating some tiles near our W horses for our next city.
Writing in 2 turns.
The next moves:
1. Our S+S team will found a city 3 tiles N of Mecca, on the hill. It will then crank out S+S teams asap. Our next Settler will still go farther N and we hope to block the Japanese.
2. Medina’s Settler will plop a city on the furs, then it’s a W+S team heading SW along the coast.
3. The next city will be built by the W horses, then on the isthmus, then on then E horses.
4. Damascus’ S+W team will head east.
5. Research: we’ll head strait for Literature and the GL at max research speed.
The larger game: the Americans are expanding too fast for my taste, especially that the central part of the continent is exceptional land. We will have to prune them back a bit. I already have a plan…
 Attachment: ms101, 2190 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
And the screenshot:
 Attachment: ms2190bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 91 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
Dominae,
Thanks a lot for your comments. I am going to REALLY like this way of gaming!
Comments on your comments:
1. Worker before Granary: yes, I like the power of workers early on. Quicker tile improvements and more roads, but I agree, a Granary first is an excellent tip.
2. Mine on a hill: the difference betweena mine and a chopped forest is that the mine stays forever. You don't get the shields early on from the forest, but once the mine is 'working' you get your shield every turn. So it's a trade-off.
3. Military units in size 2 towns: I built those units waiting for the towns to grow in size (for workers and/or settlers). The barbs were in the (far) future anyway, so no advanced scouting needed. But once I get a settler, I can send it off immediately, without waiting for the escort (warrior or spearman): turns gained.
Comments?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
alexman
|
 |
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
|
|
Finally finished my round. I guess I'm late, but that's OK because I didn't do very well anyway.
Pre-game plan:
To launch as fast as possible, we need help from the AI. At Monarch, the AI falls behind in research, unless they are a superpower, so they need help from us. We will leave as many AIs as possible alone, attacking only to get enough territory to sustain a comfortable 4-turn per advance pace.
We will go for max research, trading (or gifting) our advances to everyone as soon as we get them. Since we are religious, we will B-line for Monarchy, and then switch to Democracy, which is more powerful in the AU mod. Monarchy will get us out of Despotism ASAP, while providing support for our ancient age army that we will use to attack our first neighbor.
The starting location looks promising, but we need another bonus food tile to get a 4-turn settler factory. Try to find such a tile before settling. If not, we will settle at the start position. We need many scouts to get contacts and speed up the tech rate.
4000: Move worker NW to uncover tiles not reached by moving to the hill, while still moving to a cow tile to be improved. No food bonus found. Scout will end up on hill, but move E first in case there is another hill or mountain. Move scout SW to hill. No food bonus. There are two grassland tiles (SW-SW-SW, SW-SW-S of Settler) that might have bonus food if we move the Settler. The reward would be a 4-turn settler factory. The risk is a loss of a turn. Feeling lucky.
3950: Plop Mecca. No food bonus. Oh Well. Worker irrigates cattle. Scout1-E-SE, pop hut: Warrior Code. Research Mysticism at 100%.
3900: Scout1-N-N. Found that food bonus! Too late, but the 4-turn factory is so important that we will build the second city on the bonus grassland NE-NE from Mecca. Mecca will be abandoned for the Palace jump. For now, it will build scouts until it is large enough to build a settler to found the factory ASAP.
3850: Scout1 moves NE-NW (to climb mountain next turn)
3800: Scout1 moves NE-NE. See goody hut.
3750: Mecca builds Scout2. Irrigation finished. Worker roads cattle. Scout1-NE-NE (hut: maps, see new hut north). Scout2 moves SW-S (sees hut)
3700: Scout1-N-N (going for hut), Scout2-W, pops hut: maps, Scout2-SE.
3650: Scout2-E-S. Scout1-NW-N, pops hut: maps
3600: Road finished, move worker to second cattle (SW). Scout2-E. Scout1-NW-W
3550: Mecca builds Scout3. Worker irrigates cattle. Scout2-E. Scout1-W-N (on mountain), Scout3-N-NW-W
3500: Scout3-NW-N, Scout2-N-NE, Scout1-N-E
3450: Scout3-W-N, Scout2-NE-E, Scout1-NE-NE
3400: Scout1-NE-N, meets American Warrior. Scout2-SE-NE. Scout3-N-W, pops hut: Bronze. Trade Bronze to Americans for 10g, as they are likely researching it anyway.
3350: Finished irrigating second cattle, Worker roads cattle. Scout3-N-NW, Scout2-NE-N, Scout1-E-NE
3300: Scout1-SE-E, Scout3-NW-N (see green borders), Scout2-NE-N
3250: Mecca builds settler, settler moves N-E, Scout2-S-E, Scout1-NE-E, Scout3-W-NW. Trade Bronze, Pottery, Warrior Code to Japan for Wheel plus 10g. Trade Wheel, Burial to America for Masonry. Gift 55g to Japan to make them polite. Trade masonry to Japan for 55g.
3200: Scout3-NW-W, plop Medina, Scout2-E-E, Scout1-S, Worker moves E to plains.
3150: Scout2-NW-NW, Scout1-E-NE, Scout3-W, Worker-irrigate plains.
3100: Scout2-N-N, Scout1-S-S, Scout3-S
3050: Mecca builds Warrior1. Scout2-E-N. Scout1-S-E. Scout3-N. Warrior1-N-N (going to uncover some hill tiles skipped by scouts). Then he will return home for MP and for defense against barbs. Lower science to 40% as we will get Mysticism next turn.
3000: Warrior1-N, Scout1-SE-SE, Scout3-NE-N, Scout2-E-E. Science back to 100%
2950: Scout2-N-W, Scout1-S-W, Worker finished irrigation, order to road. Warrior1-N, Scout3-SE-E
2900: Mecca builds Worker2, Warrior1-NW, Scout3-SE-E, Scout1-NW-W, Scout2-SW-W, Worker2-SW
2850: Scout3-NE-N, Warrior1-NW, Worker2-road, Scout2-N-W, Scout1-W-NW
2800: Scout2-S, Scout1-NW-W, Warrior1-S, Worker1-NE-NE, Scout3-N-N (see hut)
2750: Warrior1-S, Scout1-N-W, Scout2-W. We don't want a Settler up where Scout3 is, so switch build to settler and pop. Scout3-E (maps), Scout3-E
2710: Worker1-irrigate, Scout2-NW-NW, Worker2 done with road, move W to bonus grass. Warrior1-S, Scout3-W-W, Scout1-E-S
2670: Mecca builds Warrior2, Warrior2-N-E (to Medina), Worker2 mines bonus grass, Warrior1-S, Scout1-SW-SW, Scout3-W-N, Scout2-SW-SW
2630: Scout2-SW-S, Warrior2-fortify, Warrior1-E, Scout3-7, Scout1-S-SW
2590: Scout1-W-SW, Scout2-S-S, Worker1 done with irrigation, order to road. Warrior1-S, fortify in Mecca. Scout3-W-SE
2550: Scout2-W-S, Scout1-W-W, Scout3-SE-SE
2510: Scout2-S-S, Scout1-W-W, Scout3-SE-E
2470: Medina builds Granary, Scout2-W-S, Scout1-N-W, Scout3-SE-S, Worker1-E to chop game forest
2430: Worker1-chop, Worker2-road (finished mining bonus grass), Scout2-2, Scout3-SE-S, Scout1-SW-S, Warrior1-N-E (MP for Medina, which grew to size 4). America got Iron Working, but we can't trade for it.
2390: Mecca builds Spearman because I messed up and it was building a settler without having enough population yet. Scout2-S, Scout1-SW-SW, Scout3-SE-S
2350: Scout2-S, Whoa, there's more land here! Initial scouting pass missed it. Scout3-SE-S, whoops, ended turn next to barb. Scout1-SE-SE
2310: Scout3 dead, Scout1-SE-S, Worker2 done with road, move E, irrigate. Scout2-S. Luxury slider 10% because Medina is size 5. Japan got Iron Working too.
2270: Medina builds Settler, Scout1-E, Scout2-S, Lux slider back to 10%, Settler-NE-NE, going to get game in boundaries of Medina
2230: Scout 2 meets barb, has to retreat N. Scout1-S-E
2190: Medina builds Worker3, plop Damascus, Scout1-E-S, Worker3-NE-NE, Scout2-SW, damn, next to barb. Warrior1-S (from Medina)
2150: Scout2 killed. Warrior1-S, Worker3-road, Scout1-SE-SE-SE (using road), Worker2-S
Summary:
Bad luck with three exploring scouts has left the barb-infested south unexplored. The goody huts (maps,maps,maps,maps,gold,bronze,WarriorCode) weren't especially goody, but the two techs were welcome. At least we are almost done setting up the 4-turn settler factory in Medina. The tech rate is not very good, as we have met only two civilizations.
Future plans
Explore the south, build loads of chariots for MP, which will be upgraded later to Ansars. Expand as fast as possible using the settler pump and build FP near Palace. Conquer one of the AIs with Ansars and jump Palace to their core. No more plans for expansion after that. Gift technologies to all other AIs, when we meet them. Let the AI research maps (they love to do so) and build suicide galleys to get more contacts.
Attachment: bc2150.jpg
This has been downloaded 87 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
alexman
|
|
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
|
|
Oh yeah, here's the save too...
Attachment: alexman spaceship 2150bc.sav
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).
Last edited by alexman on 18-09-2003 at 19:39
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
Nice report alexman. I especially liked the pregame and postblock planning. You clearly knew how you're going to win this game far before you even sat down to play it (...is that a good thing!?).
quote:
Originally posted by alexman
Scout1-N-N. Found that food bonus! Too late, but the 4-turn factory is so important that we will build the second city on the bonus grassland NE-NE from Mecca. Mecca will be abandoned for the Palace jump. For now, it will build scouts until it is large enough to build a settler to found the factory ASAP.
|
Woah! This is unexpected. Will the Palace jump really reduce Corruption enough (via RCP) to warrant the disbanding of a whole city so early on? I mean, you could probably use Mecca to build quite a few Chariots and such before disbanding it. Maybe I'm just squeamish because this falls outside the boundaries of "normal" play.
You did do your best to find that other bonus Food, though!
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by alexman
Well, I plan to abandon Mecca after my FP is built, and after I have obtained a second core from the AI. |
Ah, ok, it sounded like you were planning on abandoning Mecca right away (within the next block).
When will your Settler pump stop "pumping", and begin the FP?
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BRC
|
|
Alexman: Yeah, you're right. That settler pump is almost up and running. The 3 workers running around already should allow you to get your next 2 cities hooked up fairly quickly, and keep your production up. The lack of military probably won't be an issue here, but I feel that having a few warriors/archers running around and bopping settler teams is a great advantage, even for a builder game. All in all, a strong base, with your development centered around the pump.
Defcon 5: The good news is that you are the tech leader. The rest of this is meant to be constructive, so please don't get upset.
1) A barracks in Mecca? You are not militaristic and you're playing a builder game. That 40 shields could have been 4 warriors to help you with the annoying barbs that are running around.
2) Mining the cattle on plains: Irrigate that! In despotism, it will do nothing to mine it. But when you irrigate it, it becomes a very powerful tile. It becomes even more powerful when you..
3) Micromanage. Everyone hates doing this, but until you have a lot more cities, it shouldn't bother you that much. The goal is to minimize waste by overfilling the production and food boxes.
4) Medina is, in my opinion, in a very poor place. In the early game it is more effective to get your growth and production up, and settling by bonus tiles is the best way to do that. Any city by the games or even the floodplains would probably have been a little better. You really just don't need that
luxury right now, and I don't think anyone will take it.
5) Mathematics has already been mentioned, I believe.
A little work is needed, but not too shabby.
MS: Getting Medina was both a blessing and a curse. Seems like you're making the most of it. The large amount of workers is good, but you seem to almost be using them haphazardly (that's not the right word, but I don't know what is now). From the looks of things, I'd say that you already know the tiles that your next few cities are gonna sit on. Just make sure you get some by the games. You do have some trades that probably should be made, with each of the civs. I can definately tell that your are a builder though.
Tarquinius: I like the initial placement of cities, in a 4/4.5 ring.
The game should be a big boost especially if you can get a worker to clear and irrigate them. I think you need to trade with the Carthaginians, and then kill that lone warrior. Seal up the chokepoint and make peace. I know you are going for SS, but a little butt-whooping wouldn't hurt. Overall, a very solid game.
vmxa1: I just have a problem with Damascus being founded there before a city is set next to the game. You've acknowledged the need to trade your techs around. As far as 40-turn research, with the Religious trait, I probably would have made it Polytheism, given the opportunity. I also don't understand the Barracks in Mecca, and the heavily garrisoned cities. Those warriors could be out causing a ruckus, or knocking barb encampments.
Zargon X: Sweet! That settler is headed towards the game. Found that city next turn and you're set. Can't get a lot of info from the pic, but I think you'll be fine.
Conclusion: Everyone here played a good game. Nobody would have any problems if they would be playing their save out. Almost everyone is already first on the F11 screen in the important categories. However, Tarquinius has that extra step. Plus it'll be interesting to see how people deal
with that Carthaginian warrior (Somebody kill it, please!).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
alexman, I just reread your DAR and now I understand your intention. Sorry for all those silly questions!
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BRC
|
|
Oh yeah. Sorry. +1 to the Big T.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
G'Kar
|
|
St. Louis, USA
Aug 2003
time: 23:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
I take it the Black Land has something to do wit Lord Of The Rings? |
I have a sneaking feeling that the Black Land has been engineered by the maker of this world to be a significant power.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
vmxa1
|
|
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by BRC
vmxa1: I just have a problem with Damascus being founded there before a city is set next to the game. You've acknowledged the need to trade your techs around. As far as 40-turn research, with the Religious trait, I probably would have made it Polytheism, given the opportunity. I also don't understand the Barracks in Mecca, and the heavily garrisoned cities. Those warriors could be out causing a ruckus, or knocking barb encampments.
|
Well that is why I am playing to get another perspective.
First let me say I would choose T's game as well.
Second I could not make up my mind about Poly to research, but I now think going for Monarchy, would be the better move. I am not use to being religious and being able to switch.
Third, I am forget the details on Carth, but the others have so little to trade, I would be inclined to only sell them techs, if I sell it first to Carth or at least some one has it already. This would be the first thing I would check at this turn. So I am not sure if anything would be done or not.
Barracks is to get vets for the unit I send with any settler and was build when I could not produce a settler, so was not much of a loss. This also ties ino the barbs camp bit. I do not see much value in sending out regular warriors to attack camps. They are not a shoe in to win the fight and the camps are going to be hard to find and reach with slow warriors. I would prefer to use Horsemen for the job. This may be a mistake, but I am not fond of seeing my warrior spend 15 turns looking for a camp only to be killed. Close by camps will be shutdown.
Damascus was placed to provide two things. One is access to the spices and the other is to cut of access to the rest of the land for Carthage. I think this is quite important. I can forsee spears and settlers coming through there soon and I have no confidence that warriors will be able to stop them. This is why I went for IW, I would want swords to ensure that I can kill barbs and spears. Well maybe not ensure, but increase the likelyhood.
So I would be interested in seeing why these are less valuable or what will I gain by adopting some other strategy. Now if it all about RCP, then I should be on to making troops and camps.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Nor Me
|
|
I'll try not to repeat the comments others have already made so much but a lot of them are important enough to reinforce.
Those of you who built or are building spearmen: why?
warriors are cheaper and can upgrade. archers are better against barbarians and are more useful if you need to attack. Do I need to say why chariots are better.
On Monarch, attacking barbarians is much better than defending against them. In PTW the barbarians are likely to aim for improvements and workers rather than a defended city. So spearmen aren't that useful against them.
Other civs do tend to attack the least well defended city but I'd expect them to be more scared of archers in general. we know they have more influence on the military advisor.
If you're planning on playing this as a builder, in general you're economy will be better and it will be easier to spare the gold for upgrades than spend more shields. a swordsman is as good a defender as a spearman and is more useful. It should only be a matter of time before warriors become them. While spears eventually become part of a good upgrade chain, that's too far in the future to plan on. I'd be surprised if you aren't involved in a war before then.
Spearmen just seem to me to be the worst possible choice of unit. I'd think about sending one to the chokepoint but that's all I'd use them for at this stage of the game.
Some of you even seem to be exploring with warriors rather than scouts. That does seem a little paranoid for the start and is certainly a bad idea.
Mountain Sage, quote:
3750BC: 1st hut (NW) gives us a Settler! There are furs, fish and whales.
3700BC: Medina is founded along the coast. Worker-Warrior-Warrior-Settler (for the furs). |
So that wasn't an advanced tribe? I wouldn't have put Medina there. One square SE could have got the whale after a pop-rushed temple. Better sill, a city on the hill W of the furs could have secured them straight away and could have built a constant stream of workers after a warrior and a pop-rushed temple. In despotism without a harbour, fish aren't that good.
But I would probably have ignored the furs and moved the settler closer to Mecca. That early, barbarians won't be a problem and spending 6 or 7 turns moving the settler would have been worth it.
You've secured the isthmus early. I always seem to have bad luck forthifying units in jungle.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
17-09-2003 02:29
. My first concern was to take advantage of the choke point to the S and block Carthage, and also grab the spices. I'll still need another city down there to make it secure.
|
|
