19-09-2003 01:07									#61
	Put an end to popups!

Hmm, interesting comments re: spearmen.

Though I can't speak for any here, I can say why I built some spearmen:

-If I'm going to build units for upgrade (warriors -> swords) for use in attack, I'm not going to build regulars. Thus, I need a barracks.
-I figure the spears might get hit by barbs and get promoted, maybe.
-Since I'm rarely on defense against the AI, I'm not overly worried about some city defenders being regulars.
-Yet I've had enough bad luck against barbs in recent games (regular and vet warriors going down to barb warriors flawlessly, on Monarch... often) that I don't trust a city garrison consisting of a regular warrior. Especially since I had over 300 gold lying around.

-Arrian

	19-09-2003 03:07									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian -Yet I've had enough bad luck against barbs in recent games (regular and vet warriors going down to barb warriors flawlessly, on Monarch... often) that I don't trust a city garrison consisting of a regular warrior. Especially since I had over 300 gold lying around. -Arrian

That was my point on the idea of sending warriors out to bust camps. That is not a given with just regular warriors. Barbs are more inclined to leave a city alone if it has a spear, than a warrior. Given a choice I would rather build another road or mine, than get ransacked.
(talking about new cities on the fringes)
I will use archers or swords or horses to bust camps and a warrior when it was already in scout mode, but not to just go out to pillage camps.

	19-09-2003 03:12									#63
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The number of barbs that showed up so far really suprised me. I had a single warrior defending Medina, which I thought would be sufficient. However, when 4 barbs attacked it over the span of 2 turns, it was too much for my poor garrison. Hence, I lost the settler work.

	19-09-2003 03:39									#64
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OK. Not much time. Sorry.

Read through each players report. Very good. Always room for improvement, but all around very good (not like I played - I just got sloppy on myself and my team - sorry guys, promice to do better next time).

Anyways, as I said, not much time now. In short - I think the best for the team is tarq. As I suspect that others will do a lot of analysis and I have to go (did I say that) I will just vote at this time. Thanks and good luck.

	19-09-2003 04:20									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

ZargonX, if 4 barbs showed up I'd be switching to another defender. It does look like you were just unlucky . I'd still stand by my comment that warriors or archers are always better than spears. If you had a spearman, they would have gone somewhere else. You can only take advantage of that if you have something to pick them off with.

I've still got comments to make but on the vote, the choice I face is between alexman and Tarquinus. alexman can clearly do well against the odds and shouldn't even be playing this round at all. Researching towards Monarchy and aiming for a palace jump are both very sensible although I seem to be the only other player who thinks so. The settler pump at Medina is going to be useful. They could easily make up for a worse start in the long run.

Tarquinus' opening only really has one fault, that being researching Mathematics and that would have been a good idea at a higher difficulty level. I wouldn't be sending that settler that far away as well but that's less importamnt. I'd disagree with Dominae about the location of Medina. Another flood plain would be nice but getting those bonus grasslands in straight away is more important. For the distance it's the best city site. It's certainly where I might have founded it.

I'll vote for alexman. I'd say his opening demonstrated better strategy. I know he was over the deadline but under the circumstances...
But I won't be dissapointed when Tarquinus wins.

	19-09-2003 04:54									#66
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Given the zero bombard boost archers get in the AU mod, I should have build some archers instead of spears, I'll grant you. However, I don't trust 1-defense units against barb attack, period. Plus, I've been sneak attacked by solo AI warriors enough to know that a spearman instead of a warrior on defense can save me a city (or prevent the attack in the first place).

But whatever, in general I agree with you that it's better to have offense than defense.

Anyway, I'm torn between Tarq and Alexman.

Tarq has the better tech position (ok, that's not THAT important, but it's something).

I'm impressed with Alexman's response to the food situation, and he's right there with Tarq in terms of population (7 pop points to Tarq's 6 - though Tarq's Mecca will grow next turn to even it up).

I'm a little unclear about the palace jump plan, but I'm intrigued.

I vote Alexman.

-Arrian

	19-09-2003 06:10									#67
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am not sure I understand what is mant by zero bombardment. Do you mean that that archers are immune to cannons and such? If so, it does not mean anthing for some time as none will be showing up for action and it will be awhile before any are faced in any attack. I like to uses archers to kept barbs down, until I get horses, but spears work fine in town.
I am not so worried about them pillaging as any town that has much in the way of improvements will be defended, it is the frontier towns that are at risk and they do not have improvements. That is why you will sometimes get a barb or two hit the town with one warrior.
Now if I have an elite warrior I feel much better.

	19-09-2003 08:47									#68
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

vmxa1, zero bombard is the auto-defense that artillery units get... in the AU Mod, Archers / Bowman and all their upgrade units get the same effect. It's pretty cool.

	19-09-2003 09:09									#69
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Which is definatly a great addition I might add.

	19-09-2003 09:09									#70
	Suffering from ads?

The voting for the first turn block is finished and Tarquinius is the choice. Congratulations Tarquinius. The second turn block will be posted in a new DAR thread. Everyone will have 4 days to complete the second turn block. That means the DARs will need to be posted by 23:59 EST Monday the 22nd.

	19-09-2003 09:44									#71
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Theseus vmxa1, zero bombard is the auto-defense that artillery units get... in the AU Mod, Archers / Bowman and all their upgrade units get the same effect. It's pretty cool.

So you are saying that an archer will get off a shot if the town is attacked and it is not the first defender up?
Will all such archers in a stack behave that way, like arties? That is if we have 4 units with say 2 archers and 2 pikes and the pikes do the defending, one archer will fire at the first attacker and if a second attack takes place the second archer fires?

	19-09-2003 09:51									#72
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes.

	19-09-2003 10:13									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wow that seems very strong, I need to keep that in mind. I normally do not make many archers, if I do not intend to attack right away.
Wonder how many other AU mod items will get me.

	19-09-2003 10:45									#74
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That's the point: combined arms, making Archers useful after Swordsmen start coming online. They're not fantastic, mind you, but throwing a couple in your Swordsmen stack is never a bad idea.

The main changes to gameplay are: 1) Archer rushes are better, and 2) the AI is better on defense, since it typically keeps Archers/Longbowmen in cities as counter-attackers.


Dominae

	19-09-2003 11:43									#75
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I know I will need to read that thing again as it has some hits to SS stuff, but that is a ways off.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 20-09-2003 at 04:54

	20-09-2003 04:56									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok I have my back up inline now, so I can get started. You did not mention in this thread the next cut up, was it 1250BC? I look at some other place to see if it was mentioned.

	20-09-2003 04:58									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK I found it and it is 30 turns 1250BC.