14-10-2003 11:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r the easyest way to do this, AFAIK, is to create an air unit wih lots of movement (temporarily) and use it to explore (creating another one when only 1 move is left, and disbanding the old one)...

Yeah, that's what I thought, thanks!

quote: And i have no idea for the barbarian's disbanding of the unit... is it supported by the city (and the city has no shields to upkeep it?) maybe it gets disbanded (try changing it's support to the barb city, if it is a NON unit)... they're wild gusses, though..

The unit is a NON, so it shouldn't have support problem! And I can't make it supported by the city, cause it hasn't enough shields for that!

I have a feeling that it somehow might be related to th slot, but... Mercator??

	14-10-2003 20:12									#32
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No idea... Maybe the barbarians don't like the unit stats, or it is a bit of an AI reflex to try and get some production in the city?

	14-10-2003 20:47									#33
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Hell, I would like the unit stats! It's the 3 Horsemen of the Apocralypse we're speaking about (Death is missing...)

And it can't have anything to do with the city, because it's not supported by it (NONE unit).

Well, I'll try to change it's slot, as the AI uses the caravel slot for barbarians(not in my scen), maybe it's handled differently than other slots...

	14-10-2003 20:48									#34
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And what happens if you give the city some shield production and make your unit supported by the city?

also, is there any nil-unit whose stats are better than said unit? maybe they disband it because it's 'obsolete'....

	14-10-2003 23:31									#35
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Take a look at the Barbarian Paper in the Scenario League tips section. IIRC, the caravel slot, as well as the other barb-used naval unit slots, have special properties and yeah, the AI will not use any units created in these slots in the normal way. Think about it; how many times in the default game have we seen barb caravels and frigates unload 6, 7, or 8 ground units? They aren't supposed to be able to carry that much. I think your idea for trying another slot is best.

	15-10-2003 11:39									#36
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Thanks guys, I'll first try changing the slot tonight, and if it doesn't work I'll make the unit be supported by the city!

Exile, just checked the article and found this:
"Unfortunately, not all unit slots can be barbarians. Oh, sure, it will create the unit - but it will vanish within a single turn. So, what units vanish and what ones stay around?

The units that stay around the longest are the modern units. Of those I tried, the longest lasting were: ironclads, cruisers, AEGIS cruisers, battleships, partisans, riflemen, paratroopers, armors, howitzers and cavalry. Other artillery-type units also lasted a long time. Earlier units tend to vanish more quickly (e.g., phalanx). If you produce a unit in one of the early ship slots, like caravels, they vanish within the turn -- not even lasting long enough to capture a city."

Seems to be an accurate description of what happens to me... So I'll definitely change the slot! Thanks!!

Last edited by Cyrion on 15-10-2003 at 11:50

	16-10-2003 02:56									#37
	The Vanishing Horsemen of Apocralypse... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

OK, it still doesn't work!

Here is what I tried, without any success...

1) I changed the unit from the caravel slot to the mech infantry slot; no change

2) I change the slot to the ironclad one: no change!

3) I then tried to use a supported unit (by a Barb city with a shield to support it) instead of a NONE one: no change!!

What can I try now, I'm really lost!!

Here is the script I used in the event (Dungeon Dim. is the name I use for the Barbs, and yes, this works!):

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=41
receiver=ANYBODY
@THEN
TEXT
3 Horsemen apparition: bla-bla
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
unit=3 Horsemen
owner=Dungeon Dim.
veteran=yes
homecity=NONE
locations
70,62
76,62
70,66
71,67
73,65
endlocations
JUSTONCE
@ENDIF

And here are the unit stats (which are really good compared to other units):

3 Horsemen, nil, 0, 3.,0, 12a,15d, 2h,2f, 9,3, 0, NF, 000000000010010

So, can someone tell me why the unit disappears right after its creation??

Please help...

	16-10-2003 04:03									#38
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Simply, certain unit slots can not be Barbarians by any means.They disappear the turn they are created, not even having time to capture a city.

It is hard coded in the civ2 game.

	16-10-2003 05:54									#39
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Ironclad slot didn't work.

Are the 3 horsemen obsolete? I had fits with the AI disbanding obsolete units of a civilization. Just removing the obsolete tech and using an unreachable tech as its preq solved the problem. Don't know whether it's related to your barbarian problem, though.

	16-10-2003 17:14									#40
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Nope, that's not it: the Unit is never obsolete, and it's prerequisite is unreachable!

Weird thing, isn't it??

Help me, it's the only thing I need to correct before I can launch my own playtest (which will then show other problems, I'm sure...).

	17-10-2003 15:16									#41
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Could it be a problem with the units role perhaps? The AI is kind of touchy with how it treats units with differing roles.

	17-10-2003 15:31									#42
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If you're desperate, post the unit stats.

	17-10-2003 21:15									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Boco If you're desperate, post the unit stats.

I think I did, 5 posts above yours...

And yes, I am desperate...

	17-10-2003 23:02									#44
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I assume you are creating it on a populated continent... otherwise they might be disbanding it cause it has nothing to do..


perhaps if you replace it's slot with a modern land unit?

	18-10-2003 02:31									#45
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quote: I think I did, 5 posts above yours...

I gotta spend more time reading before I post.

	21-10-2003 16:51									#46
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I afraid Barbarian ships with holds ever disappears at the end of every turn.
solution set holds to zero, some times the carrier flag also prevents these units from disappearing.

At this time i have the same problem with my scen
check the convoy unit
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=99230
Convoy,no, 2, 14.,0, 4a, 9d,3h,2f,104,5,2, Ban, 110000010000001

now the convoy has a hold of 5 he disappears
if you set holds to zero he doesnt disappears

	04-11-2003 02:36									#47
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll try to put the hold on 0 (even if it's not a ship) and see whether it works!

Don't know how it got its 3 value!

	04-11-2003 13:22									#48
	Re: The Vanishing Horsemen of Apocralypse... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Cyrion OK, it still doesn't work! 3 Horsemen, nil, 0, 3.,0, 12a,15d, 2h,2f, 9,3, 0, NF, 000000000010010 So, can someone tell me why the unit disappears right after its creation?? Please help...

3 Horsemen, no , 0, 3.,0, 12a,15d, 2h,2f, 9,3, 0, NF, 000000000010010

try this with no instead of nil

	04-11-2003 22:54									#49
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Ok, it's solved, it was the hold of 3 that did it, even if it wasn't a naval unit!

Thanks Thoddy!

	05-11-2003 04:17									#50
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This is somewhat OT, but are you basing the "three horsemen" off of Revelation, or the popular conception a la Marvel Comics's "Apocalypse?"

I just wanna know because, for some reason, it really irritates me when people refer to "the horseman of pestilence," which doesn't exist. White Conquest, Red War, Black Famine, Pale Death, dagnabit! No Pestilence!


Now that I have that out of my system, I'll leave you be.

	05-11-2003 23:55									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Elok This is somewhat OT, but are you basing the "three horsemen" off of Revelation, or the popular conception a la Marvel Comics's "Apocalypse?" I just wanna know because, for some reason, it really irritates me when people refer to "the horseman of pestilence," which doesn't exist. White Conquest, Red War, Black Famine, Pale Death, dagnabit! No Pestilence! Now that I have that out of my system, I'll leave you be.

I'm afraid Pestilence is in...

I use this unit in a scenario based on Terry Pratchett Discworld series (and the scen is called Discworld! How original! )

So the riders in the unit are War, Famine and Pestilence (Death having it's own unit!).

So there I hope I'm not irritating you too much??

	08-11-2003 21:28									#52
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Only if you atone by reading the relevant passages in Revelation and officially acknowledging that you are wrong.

	08-11-2003 23:19									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Only if you atone by reading the relevant passages in Revelation and officially acknowledging that you are wrong.

Oh dear. Ahh, hell, they’re both fiction, anyway - only Pratchett’s is probably closer to the truth.

	09-11-2003 18:19									#54
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Atheistrolling *definitely* belongs in the OT. I was joking.

	09-11-2003 18:49									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Atheistrolling *definitely* belongs in the OT. I was joking.

Joking, with a little patronising nudge. Likewise, your nice composite, "atheistrolling".

quote: Originally posted by Elok This is somewhat OT

You said it, mate. You keep it in OT and I'll shut my trap.

	13-01-2004 21:28									#56
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First, I'm having (again!) problem with (other) barbarian units: they disappear the turn when they are created! I even tried to recreate them at the same spot every turn, but they get created, and then disappear before the first player gets to move in the turn...

But I guess I'll just have to check wether they have holds, and then try to move them around the units file...


Second problem: is there a way to prevent a Communist civ to get partisans once they loose a city?

If there isn't, I'll need to do a lot of work to make sure they get an unit they could build (i.e. destroy heaps of units and then recreate the right ones...)

	15-01-2004 03:02									#57
	Partisans and barbarians Increase the size of your Attachments

First, about the partisans: can someone answer my question??

And second: As my scenario relies quite heavily on changeterrain to allow/block events, I'm afraid there's no easy solution to the barbarian disappearance problem!

What I saw: I played a bit with the unit slot to see how long the units would be kept by the barbarians. It's true that some slots work better than others, BUT my problem is that any "changet terrain" coomand seems to destroys most of them (and I don't mean those on one of the changed squares!).

So I had to opt for drastic measures!

So here is what I'll do: I'll remove a Civ (not a playable one, anyway, and it shouldn't modify the scen playability) and give all the barbarians' intended units to this civ, which will be at war with all others+ unable to communicate

Now I have a question: if an AI civ is unable to build anything, once it takes a city, will the "attacking" unit automatically be used for the city building list??

	15-01-2004 10:28									#58
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quote: if an AI civ is unable to build anything, once it takes a city, will the "attacking" unit automatically be used for the city building list??

Don't think so. It's likely to build whatever's in the settler slot. Can you link a units preq tech to a CityTaken trigger? Or will that cause a problem with other cities from the civ-formerly-known-as-barbarians?

quote: is there a way to prevent a Communist civ to get partisans once they loose a city?

Is partisan generation linked to the tech or the govt? Sounds like you've tried taking away the tech while keeping the govt. Didn't work?

Hope I didn't miss anything basic. I'm not at my sharpest at the moment.

	15-01-2004 11:39									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boco Is partisan generation linked to the tech or the govt?

Both, plus a few other things which I can't remember at the moment. From memory, the tech isn't even a compulsory pre-requisite for some partisans to appear.

quote: Hope I didn't miss anything basic. I'm not at my sharpest at the moment.

I imagine that living in a place with a tempreture range of -12C to -10C could do that I'll take good old fashioned Aussie heatwaves over that any day (though my computer fan does make truely scary noises once the room tempreture hits 35C)

	15-01-2004 14:53									#60
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Partisans can be generated from captured cities when the civ (previously ) owning them has both Communism and Gunpowder. They do not need to have a communist government though. Guerilla Warfare allows you to actually build partisans, and will increase your chances of having (more) partisans from a captured city. I'm not sure, but I think that GW also means that partisan barbs appear, whereas other civs can have them when their cities are captured, provided they have the requisite techs.