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MattH is offline MattH
King
Go sneer at that cow creamer!
Jul 2002
time: 05:30
Exclamation  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:24
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Trouble in Michigan Suffering from ads?

quote:

HORTON BAY - The peaceful, rolling farmland of Charlevoix County's Bay Township belies the potential armed confrontation that may develop there in a matter of days.

Bay Township residents Lyle Barkley and his daughter, Kimberly, stand near Kimberly's adjacent manufactured homes off Camp Daggett Road. A district court judge has ordered the rear unit removed, an order the Barkleys say they will not honor.

A county district court judge has ordered by Thursday the removal of three manufactured homes from four acres on Camp Daggett Road. The family who owns the property is vowing an armed confrontation with anyone who attempts to enforce the judge's order.

"We're going to have a standoff," said Lyle Barkley, 55.
"I'm not going to let them come in here and take this stuff," he said. "Over my dead body."

Barkley and members of his family may not be alone in their standoff. A Denver-based organization calling itself The Mutual Defense Pact - Second American Revolution Militia has vowed to call on 600 or more armed individuals from across the country to defend the Barkleys' property.

"Within a few days of (Barkley) being attacked, that little township will become the center of the universe, by force of arms," said Rick Stanley, founder of the militia group.

Barkley has created an earthen berm on his property, and said he planned to create trenches as well, in preparation for a standoff.

Charlevoix County Sheriff George T. Lasater said he hopes violence can be avoided.

"I'll do everything possible to come to a peaceful resolution of this situation, so nobody gets hurt on either side," he said. "But rest assured, I'll do my job, and I will follow the orders of the court."

The dispute involves the placement by the Barkleys of two, 12-by-60-foot mobile homes on the property, and a 24-by-34-foot former school portable. Barkley said two of the units are additions onto two existing mobile homes on the property, one of which Barkley lives in with his wife, Shirley; and another in which his daughter, Kimberly, her boyfriend and three children live. Barkley's son, Ken, and family live in the third - the school portable unit.

After initially receiving zoning permits from Bay Township in the summer of 2002, the permits were revoked by township zoning administrator Randy Frykberg that November.

Frykberg said Thursday the Barkleys had initially applied for additions, not to add additional mobile homes. Township attorney James Murray said no township or city in the state would allow the sandwiching of a manufactured house on an already nonconforming structure under zoning.

"It's a very basic question - it's a health, safety and welfare question," Murray said. "This is simply a case of abiding by zoning, and abiding by the construction code. (Barkley) blatantly disregarded both."

Barkley, however, countered that he was willing to make any changes necessary to bring the buildings up to code. He was never given that chance, he said.

After Judge Richard May's ruling in April siding with the township, Barkley said he went ahead and installed the manufactured homes on his property over the summer.

On Aug. 28, May ruled Barkley, his wife and Kimberly Barkley were in contempt of court. He ordered the buildings removed by Sept. 18, and ordered the Barkleys to pay an $800 fine. The Barkleys face 26 days in jail if the fine is not paid by Thursday.

"I won't pay it," Barkley said. "If I pay it, it's the same as saying I'm guilty."

Stanley, of the Second American Revolution Militia, said Barkley is a member of his militia's mutual defense pact, which he said is about four months old.

"We basically are not going to tolerate unconstitutional acts by governments in the future," Stanley said. "They do this kind of thing thousands of times a day, every day, across the United States. But we've drawn the line and said, 'Not with our pact members.' "

(http://www.record-eagle.com/2003/sep/12dig.htm)
Summary: Judge orders "mobile" homes removed. Trailer trash refuses and threatens an armed standoff. Owner builds earth berm, considers adding trenches around homes. Right-wing militia vows to support owners.

I really wonder how this will turn out. Repealing the judgement will say that the threat of violence works, but evicting the owners could cause some unpleasentness. The State Police are still pretty angry about the officer that died this summer and, IIRC, there's a National Guard post near Traverse City.

But this will probably just fade away, like most of these things do.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:27 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Nut cases.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:31
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quote:
After Judge Richard May's ruling in April siding with the township, Barkley said he went ahead and installed the manufactured homes on his property over the summer.


So he's a stupid lawbreaker.

Yeah, this is really worth fighting a gun battle over.

MattH is offline MattH
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:33
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I'd say. I mean really, how dumb do you have to be to think you can win a shootout with the Police?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:34
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Maybe next time they'll file for the permits before they move the trailor trash in?

Harry Seldon is offline Harry Seldon
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Birmingham, AL
Oct 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:35
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quote:
"I'm not going to let them come in here and take this stuff," he said. "Over my dead body."


Can you keep someone from doing anything really when you're dead?

quote:
Nut cases.


Why? For being upset that they aren't allowed to do what they will on their land? For trying to defend themselves from a government that is singling them out for special treatment by rezoning said land?

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:37
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I'll wait and see what the facts are. On first glance Ruby Ridge looked like the governments case had merit but after the fact (and the killing of Randy Weaver's dog, son and wife) it proved to be a house of cards.

Harry Seldon is offline Harry Seldon
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Birmingham, AL
Oct 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:39
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You mean it's not entrapment to ask someone repeatedly to break the law by sawing off a shotgun too short?

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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Aug 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:40
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quote:
Originally posted by MattH
I'd say. I mean really, how dumb do you have to be to think you can win a shootout with the Police?


If they really have a 600 man militia on their side, it'll take alot more then the police.

MattH is offline MattH
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:44
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Home of the last guy in MI who tried to fight it out:

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:44
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I certainly didnt know about the entrapment until after the events. Maybe you were there?

Sava is offline Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:45
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Waco, Michigan?

GePap is offline GePap
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:46
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Ah, we know the facts of the case already..guy broke local zoning laws, now says he will resist any attempt by local authorities to enforce a legitimate court ruling..what exactly is not known about the case?

MattH is offline MattH
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:48
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Oh, yeah- he was shot and killed by State Police 7 days later.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:50 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Home of the last guy in MI who tried to fight it out


The long arm of the law!

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Seldon
Why? For being upset that they aren't allowed to do what they will on their land? For trying to defend themselves from a government that is singling them out for special treatment by rezoning said land?


Local communities have the right to set zoning laws as they wish.

They didn't rezone as "special treatment." They revoked his permits because he was placing things on the land for which it wasn't zoned. He broke the rules, not they.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Ah, we know the facts of the case already..guy broke local zoning laws, now says he will resist any attempt by local authorities to enforce a legitimate court ruling..what exactly is not known about the case?


I point you to the 'facts' that were presented to the public about the stand-off at ruby ridge.

MattH is offline MattH
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:52
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(the guy in the article didn't die, the guy who killed a trooper did)

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 00:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Local communities have the right to set zoning laws as they wish.

They didn't rezone as "special treatment." They revoked his permits because he was placing things on the land for which it wasn't zoned. He broke the rules, not they.


Zoning laws are broken every day in every part of this country.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:00
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So what? Since some people get away with breaking the law we should let everyone get away with it? The truth is you catch people when and where you can.

GePap is offline GePap
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:01
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH


I point you to the 'facts' that were presented to the public about the stand-off at ruby ridge.


There has been no stand-off, and the court decisions are ublic record. The guy is not obeyong a court order..that simple.

quote:

Zoning laws are broken every day in every part of this country.


Then lets hope the authorities get the guts to enforce the rule of law down there.

Sava is offline Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:01
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I think the Fed's should use those planes and choppers used in dropping flame retardent on wildfires and drop massive quanities of **** on these people.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:02
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Not a bad idea Sava. They should just zone the land next to their property as a bombing range or as a landfill...

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:12
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Wow, right-wingers supporting trailer trash. In Europe, that is a leftist thing.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
Zoning laws are broken every day in every part of this country.


Which justifies what?

He didn't just break zoning laws because they didn't know any better. He deliberately violated a judge's order after he knew he wasn't supposed to do it.

Now, he's whipping himself and these militia nuts into a frenzy, already promising the next Waco or Ruby Ridge. It's not the township's fault for escalating it to that level.

If he had any goddamned sense, he'd just comply with the court and seek to follow the law next time instead of just going by his own rules. Otherwise, the consequences of his actions will be on no one but himself.

Harry Seldon is offline Harry Seldon
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Birmingham, AL
Oct 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:21
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quote:
I certainly didnt know about the entrapment until after the events. Maybe you were there?


Meant as humor. I'm batting around a .000007 on dry humor these days, it seems.

quote:
Local communities have the right to set zoning laws as they wish.

They didn't rezone as "special treatment." They revoked his permits because he was placing things on the land for which it wasn't zoned. He broke the rules, not they.


It's his land. It appears to me that this zoning ruling came into effect solely to keep him from building (or moving) on his land. Maybe his neighbors didn't like his decorating sense and pushed for it, maybe you can see it from a county highway, I don't know. If it's zoned residential he should be able to add any residential structure he wants.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Seldon
It's his land. It appears to me that this zoning ruling came into effect solely to keep him from building (or moving) on his land. Maybe his neighbors didn't like his decorating sense and pushed for it, maybe you can see it from a county highway, I don't know. If it's zoned residential he should be able to add any residential structure he wants.


Read the article:

quote:

Frykberg said Thursday the Barkleys had initially applied for additions, not to add additional mobile homes. Township attorney James Murray said no township or city in the state would allow the sandwiching of a manufactured house on an already nonconforming structure under zoning.

"It's a very basic question - it's a health, safety and welfare question," Murray said. "This is simply a case of abiding by zoning, and abiding by the construction code. (Barkley) blatantly disregarded both."


Also note that one of the structures is a portable school room, clearlu NOT a residential structure.

It being his land doesn't give him a right to do whatever he wants with it. What if he wanted to build his own nuclear reactor?

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Read the article:



Also note that one of the structures is a portable school room, clearlu NOT a residential structure.


Also note the word "unconforming".

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Seldon

Meant as humor. I'm batting around a .000007 on dry humor these days, it seems.


I thought it read as a little strange. I'll keep it mind next time

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 13-09-2003 04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Which justifies what?

He didn't just break zoning laws because they didn't know any better. He deliberately violated a judge's order after he knew he wasn't supposed to do it.

Now, he's whipping himself and these militia nuts into a frenzy, already promising the next Waco or Ruby Ridge. It's not the township's fault for escalating it to that level.

If he had any goddamned sense, he'd just comply with the court and seek to follow the law next time instead of just going by his own rules. Otherwise, the consequences of his actions will be on no one but himself.


Gee! He violated a judges order. Disobeyed a zoning law. Wow public enemy no.1 ! I guess where you and some of the others live nobody ever defied an unjust law before.

 
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