27-09-2003 22:05									#31
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I would like to test this out. I recently cleared out my saves folder so I dont have any modern age saves. Does anyone have a save that is pre-nuclear war, but has a stockpile of nukes? I think that would be the easiest way to run the tests. Thanks.

	27-09-2003 22:15									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty I would like to test this out. I recently cleared out my saves folder so I dont have any modern age saves. Does anyone have a save that is pre-nuclear war, but has a stockpile of nukes? I think that would be the easiest way to run the tests. Thanks.

Well, I have one save for vanilla Civ III 1.29 with (only) 8 ICBM and capacity to produce many others. I can post it if you want.

	27-09-2003 22:19									#33
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Ah, vanilla civ is no good to me, as I dont think I can use it for ptw 1.27

	28-09-2003 02:10									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Ah, vanilla civ is no good to me, as I dont think I can use it for ptw 1.27

I really should get PTW.

	28-09-2003 02:29									#35
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Yes Nym...you should.

Buying Conquests should handle that!!

Snotty, This possibility seems to be what the empirical evidence MAY indicate. Thanks for offering to do the research. I would be very interested in your results.

	28-09-2003 09:26									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Interesting idea plato. You mean after someone has used nukes, then pollution and global warming turn into this more 'evil' pollution? I dont know if its possible, but Id like to find out.

My understanding of the cause and effect is that the use of nukes on land causes lots of pollution; the pollution causes global warming; then the global warming causes terrain to do randomly bizarre and generally unfavorable things. The terrain changes can be anywhere, not necessarily near the blast zone. So, when you nuke someone, not only are you screwing him you are ultimately screwing everyone else including yourself. (Could make lots of people very angry in a multiplayer game I would imagine)

No such thing as more evil pollution but the pollution doesn't go away. After global warming starts it will continue to cycle until you clean up. If you did alot of nuking the changes to terrain could come every turn.

I always have my clean-up crews on standby when nuking.

	28-09-2003 12:32									#37
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Vince, all you say is true. However mountains and hills are generally considered to be immune to the effects of global warming. Both Turrosh and Badams have said they have seen one changed, and Im just trying to track down what caused that. Possible ideas include the hill changed because it had a resource on it, or it was after a nuclear war.

I ran a brief test last night using 4 small islands. I had a rather curious result though. Despite filling up my starting island with city made pollution, the sun warning didnt get any brighter. I then proceeded to repeatedly nuke the other islands until very little unpolluted terrain remained. And still no global warming. Very bizarre. The only thing I can think of is that there was very little overall land, but I will try again later with more.

If anyone has a modern save, pre-nuclear war, with or without a nuclear stockpile, that would make my life a lot easier.

Also if anyone knows of any threads I might have missed that cover what Im trying to find out, please let me know.

	28-09-2003 14:28									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty ... the sun warning didnt get any brighter.

Sun warning? Where does this appear? Is this something that was added to the interface with PTW or does it exist in vanilla Civ3?

(counting the days to C3C... )

	28-09-2003 14:49									#39
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The sun warning was always in the game. It shows up in the top left corner of the box in the bottom right corner of the screen. Its appearance and relative brightness is the indicator of the existance and severity of global warming. When it reaches maximum brightness terrain nastiness happens.

	28-09-2003 15:00									#40
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I tried the save file that was posted, though for ease of use I used PTW to open it (im sure I had original civ round here somewhere...), Marseilles and the others got nuked, but the hill just got covered with pollution as normal, it didnt change to desert. Someone else will have to come up with the reason why

	28-09-2003 15:14									#41
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Yeah, when I downloaded the file it didnt happen, but Im ptw as well. I simply put it down as different versions

	28-09-2003 15:36									#42
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quote: Originally posted by spy14 I tried the save file that was posted, though for ease of use I used PTW to open it (im sure I had original civ round here somewhere...), Marseilles and the others got nuked, but the hill just got covered with pollution as normal, it didnt change to desert. Someone else will have to come up with the reason why

quote: Originally posted by Snotty Yeah, when I downloaded the file it didnt happen, but Im ptw as well. I simply put it down as different versions

Just to verify, I downloaded the save file and reran it. Marseilles' hill disappeared for me just as it previously did. I guess we can chalk it up to a Vanilla Civ3 bug (v1.29f)

C3C can't come soon enough....

	28-09-2003 15:40									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 The sun warning was always in the game. It shows up in the top left corner of the box in the bottom right corner of the screen...

Doh! So that's why that bright yellow blob is there! I never made the connection...

	28-09-2003 22:46									#44
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hi ,

in ptw indeed one can change the terrain with nukes , .......

need proof , well go to the editor , create a small scen , start with lots of nukes and tacticals , load the game and see what happens to the terrain

have a nice day

	28-09-2003 23:34									#45
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I tried doing that, but for some reason I couldnt even generate normal global warming despite polluting all my city squares and nuking the rest. I suppose I could try again and just unleash 25+25 starting nukes on one square and see what happened.....

	28-09-2003 23:40									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty I tried doing that, but for some reason I couldnt even generate normal global warming despite polluting all my city squares and nuking the rest. I suppose I could try again and just unleash 25+25 starting nukes on one square and see what happened.....

hi ,

put some buildings in your city aswell , give yourself all the techs and plenty of money , watch the scale go , ......

have a nice day

	29-09-2003 01:23									#47
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Panag

We are talking about trying to change Hills and Mountains with nukes, not just any old terrain.

This all came about due to me noticing that a hill that used to have coal on it outside an AI civ suddenly became a desert after it was nuked.

People who downloaded the save game and tried to duplicate this observation in PTW could not get it to happen. This appears to be something unique to Vanilla Civ.

Case closed... Its a bug.

	29-09-2003 01:27									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Turrosh Mak Panag We are talking about trying to change Hills and Mountains with nukes, not just any old terrain. This all came about due to me noticing that a hill that used to have coal on it outside an AI civ suddenly became a desert after it was nuked. People who downloaded the save game and tried to duplicate this observation in PTW could not get it to happen. This appears to be something unique to Vanilla Civ. Case closed... Its a bug.

hi ,

it aint a bug , ..... anyone can duplicate it when it comes to any terrain , ....... just nuke it enough to get what you want , ......

have a nice day

	09-10-2003 01:16									#49
	Re: Turn before Hill nuked to desert Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Turrosh Mak I have uploaded the turn just before the Romans nuke the French town of Marseilles. I have run this turn several times by shift-enter with repeatable results. The Romans always nuke the same 3 towns (Lyons, Marseilles, Cherbourg) and the hill below Marseilles turns to desert every time. I am playing Civ3 v1.29f (NOT PTW). http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Tu...rmans1560AD.SAV

Are you playing a modified version of the game? I notice you don't have corruption in ANY of your cities. How did you manage that?

Lunacy

	09-10-2003 02:05									#50
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I made a great thread about this topic a while ago but I don't think it's still there- not even in the Archive