13-09-2003 12:30									#1
	Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Got spare money?

In my current game, I noticed that a French city nuked by the Romans had a hill turn into desert. I don't know how many nukes it took to accomplish this. I've had 2 nukes hit Berlin and none of the hills in the blast radius have suffered the same fate.

Does anyone know how many nukes it takes or what chance nukes have of flatting a mountain/hill, and what terrain they change into: mountain/hill/(plain?)/desert?

	13-09-2003 19:00									#2
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This is an interesting and important question. I was not even aware of this ability until I saw it in another thread. I have several times come across an island of all mountains with resorces I wanted and had no idea what to do with them.

Last edited by PLATO on 14-09-2003 at 06:12

	14-09-2003 06:06									#3
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Are you sure this happened? Do you have a save?

	14-09-2003 07:25									#4
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I have never seen hills or mountains affected by nukes, Recently, as revenge, I nuked a series of American cities, several of which had hills and mountains in the radius of the blast: while grasslands and plains did change, hills and mountains remained the same.

	14-09-2003 22:16									#5
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that cool

	15-09-2003 02:55									#6
	Turn before Hill nuked to desert Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have uploaded the turn just before the Romans nuke the French town of Marseilles. I have run this turn several times by shift-enter with repeatable results. The Romans always nuke the same 3 towns (Lyons, Marseilles, Cherbourg) and the hill below Marseilles turns to desert every time.

I am playing Civ3 v1.29f (NOT PTW).

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Tu...rmans1560AD.SAV

	15-09-2003 17:35									#7
	Re: Turn before Hill nuked to desert Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Turrosh Mak I have uploaded the turn just before the Romans nuke the French town of Marseilles. I have run this turn several times by shift-enter with repeatable results. The Romans always nuke the same 3 towns (Lyons, Marseilles, Cherbourg) and the hill below Marseilles turns to desert every time.

Interesting that it happens every time with only one nuke in this game and never in other games. I wonder what can explain this. Do Romans have stronger nukes?

	16-09-2003 03:50									#8
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The hill that "disappeared" contained coal in 1050 but didn't in 1560 just before the nuke hit . Is it possible that these resource squares are vulnerable when a resource isnt there?

	16-09-2003 08:39									#9
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Where is someone from Firaxis when you need them? This could promote some interesting changes in some games I have played. I would like to know the possibilities before I spend my time endlessly nuking some forlorn mountain.

	18-09-2003 06:58									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Where is someone from Firaxis when you need them? This could promote some interesting changes in some games I have played. I would like to know the possibilities before I spend my time endlessly nuking some forlorn mountain


why not,your goverment wants to!
sorry,only joking i couldnt help it!

	18-09-2003 07:57									#11
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Well I wish they have let us have terraforming engineers to level mountains. Just make it take some time.

	18-09-2003 09:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Well I wish they have let us have terraforming engineers to level mountains. Just make it take some time.

Terraforming Engineers would be fantastic! It would change the way the game was played.

	18-09-2003 11:34									#13
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Terraforming Engineers would be fantastic! It would change the way the game was played.

Yes, it is the unit that often miss me.

	18-09-2003 12:09									#14
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The problem with the terraforming- capability of the civ2 engineers was that given enough time every square of the map would end up as grassland or hills.

	18-09-2003 13:02									#15
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to Civ2-style terraforming. I'm happy it's gone.

	18-09-2003 13:27									#16
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Is everyone getting the same result as me? Is Marseilles losing its hill for you guys also?

	20-09-2003 01:34									#17
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Why would you want to trade a shield rich tile like a hill for a desert?

	21-09-2003 19:47									#18
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I think there should have been a compromise between being able to level the Himalayas in 20 years (as in civ 3). At the same time. Soem minor terraforming should be allowed (i.e. plains to grassland, desert to plains) but this should take a long time, maybe 100 turns for one industrious worker. It would give workes something to do late game other than clean pollution and sit, but wouldn't cause the power to be abused.

	21-09-2003 20:20									#19
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan I think there should have been a compromise between being able to level the Himalayas in 20 years (as in civ 3). At the same time. Soem minor terraforming should be allowed (i.e. plains to grassland, desert to plains) but this should take a long time, maybe 100 turns for one industrious worker. It would give workes something to do late game other than clean pollution and sit, but wouldn't cause the power to be abused.

It seems fair to me.

	21-09-2003 23:26									#20
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Hmm. I always hated the terraforming in civ 2. I cant even begin to imagine the amount of work it would take to move an ENTIRE mountain range. This isnt one solitary lump of rock we are talking about. It seems to border on the impossible. And where would you put all of the rock?

plains to grasslands seems to be more of a prevailing weather factor than quality of soil etc. No matter how much you terraform, its still gonna be damn sunny in Spain. The only real improvement you could make would be one of water, or more organic nutrients (compost) which is already well covered with irrigation and rail.

	22-09-2003 05:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Turrosh Mak Is everyone getting the same result as me? Is Marseilles losing its hill for you guys also?

Haven't tried your game so I can't say for sure if I get the same result, but I have seen this happen before.

It happened in one of my nuke happy games where a hill/mountain only resource (can't remember which one) ended up on the desert/floodplain tile.

I don't think it's supposed to happen as I've never seen another hill/mountain flattened by nukes. Maybe it only happens on resource hills/mountains or maybe it's only because they have resources on them that we notice.

But I'm a firm believer in that global warming and nukes are not supposed to have any effects on mountains or hills because the occurance is rare.

	22-09-2003 11:40									#22
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Could it be, that when city is built, that hill is leveled to grassland status, but it gets it's defence bonus?

	24-09-2003 06:34									#23
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO This is an interesting and important question. I was not even aware of this ability until I saw it in another thread. I have several times come across an island of all mountains with resorces I wanted and had no idea what to do with them.

You can get to these resources far easier than using nukes. Send a worker to the island and sacrifice him to build an airport on the island. Airlift (if you mod) a worker or bring along a spare in the transport to road and colonize the resource (don' t forget a couple of good defenders)

	24-09-2003 07:47									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber You can get to these resources far easier than using nukes. Send a worker to the island and sacrifice him to build an airport on the island. Airlift (if you mod) a worker or bring along a spare in the transport to road and colonize the resource (don' t forget a couple of good defenders)

Ahh...Of Course! I should have thought of that. Thanks!

	27-09-2003 13:49									#25
	Re: Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Turrosh Mak In my current game, I noticed that a French city nuked by the Romans had a hill turn into desert. I don't know how many nukes it took to accomplish this. I've had 2 nukes hit Berlin and none of the hills in the blast radius have suffered the same fate. Does anyone know how many nukes it takes or what chance nukes have of flatting a mountain/hill, and what terrain they change into: mountain/hill/(plain?)/desert?

Sounds to me like you are describing the in-game effects of global warming. That causes involuntary terrain changes.

	27-09-2003 19:35									#26
	Re: Re: Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Sounds to me like you are describing the in-game effects of global warming. That causes involuntary terrain changes.

Pollution can cause a mountain to change to desert????? This is the first I have heard of this. Has anyone else ever had this experience?

	27-09-2003 19:40									#27
	Re: Re: Re: Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by PLATO Pollution can cause a mountain to change to desert????? This is the first I have heard of this. Has anyone else ever had this experience?

Never seen it myself, but I already saw posted images with plains changed to sea due global warming (after nuclear war I think); so... why not.

	27-09-2003 20:50									#28
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Nym Never seen it myself, but I already saw posted images with plains changed to sea due global warming (after nuclear war I think); so... why not.

It makes one wonder if the use of nuclear weapons changes the effects of pollution. In the initial case, the change occured after a nuke was used. Your example is also after a nuke was used. I wonder if it changes the protocols for pollution? Any ideas on if this is possible?

	27-09-2003 21:46									#29
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leveling Hills/Mountains with Nukes Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by PLATO It makes one wonder if the use of nuclear weapons changes the effects of pollution. In the initial case, the change occured after a nuke was used. Your example is also after a nuke was used. I wonder if it changes the protocols for pollution? Any ideas on if this is possible?

No idea. But AFAIR the nukes were not used on the tile that changed.

	27-09-2003 22:02									#30
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Interesting idea plato. You mean after someone has used nukes, then pollution and global warming turn into this more 'evil' pollution? I dont know if its possible, but Id like to find out.