27-04-2000 22:28									#1
	Just something to think about... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited April 27, 2000).]

	28-04-2000 00:18									#2
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*wipes drool from mouth*

	28-04-2000 00:27									#3
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Playing around with rivers? Like this?



-
Was that the UBB or me
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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on"
[This message has been edited by Andrew Livings (edited April 27, 2000).]

	28-04-2000 00:28									#4
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does this mean that I need to actually install ToT??

	28-04-2000 04:58									#5
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I am pretty sure that screen is not from ToT, since the shields are in the traditional CivII format. I would guess it's a D-Day scenario because of the countryside, but I have never heard of the town.

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	28-04-2000 06:33									#6
	Remove this text

ALL HAIL CAPTAIN NEMO, LORD OF THE SCENARIO!

	28-04-2000 06:57									#7
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Very good guesses. Not ToT, FW. Countryside guess is correct. Town is an obscure spot East of Cherbourg... Just a good spot for a screenshot without giving away too much. It's not rivers, it's the new looks of Hills, Mountains and Forest.
MORE TO COME.

	28-04-2000 07:16									#8
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Impressive Nemo, but as no surprise to me as I remember you talking about all WWII scenarios and that your next project was going to be D-Day.

	28-04-2000 07:26									#9
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I too remember Nemo mentioning a D-Day scenario. Didn't ha also mention multiple maps? Like the map increases as you conquer more turf? Perhaps not in this one, but the thought of invading with the #'s of units in RedFront is exciting!

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 28, 2000).]

	28-04-2000 11:27									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Nemo mentioned a D-Day scenario long ago:

quote: How about this scenario: D-Day to Falaise...(Title: "Invasion!", "Overlord", "Second Front", "Ike's War") Starts on June 6, 1944 with your invasion fleet off the coast of Normandy ends once you have routed the Germans and broken out of the Hedgerows of Normandy. Designed for MGE hotseat play with the Human player controlling the "Allies" and "Allied Air Force" (Two separate civs to prevent the planes from landing in captured villages in Normandy) Germans likewise split as Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe Civs. Possibly a fifth civ "French Civilians" that would be "in the way" of the military operations. A sixth civ could be ai-controlled French Underground (Maquisards) although they played a relatively small role in the early invasion. The only way to land planes in France is by capturing a few key German airfields in France since the Allied Air Force civ would have only air units and could not capture cities. Other key ideas: Very strong defensive positions along the Coast of Normandy, including coastal batteries that can fire "missile" type units and invisible "floating mine" units. Capital ships and LSTs set to 18 cost causes them to draw "missile" fire if they approach the beaches while smaller vessels (LCAs and LCTs) with lower cost can reach the beaches with less risk. Dual defense line of "beach" terrain with low defensive value and "barbwire" terrain with high movement cost and low defensive value. Behind these lines strong German bunker type units, machine gun units, anti-tank guns etc... No coastal cities except a few key harbors like Cherbourg & Le Havre to prevent Allies from easily bringing equipment and troops into Normandy. (All units have to be offloaded on the beaches)(Disable all settler/engineer functions from the menu) One feature that I am not 100% sure would work: Set population food consumption to 0, make terrain produce no food (So city population would stay constant). Rename food "fuel" and set settler role for all motor vehicles (They all consume 2 "fuel") Create fuel "depots" terrain around British cities that would allow British cities to send numerous food/fuel convoys to France to support the units based in France. This would simulate the very complex logistics of supporting the invasion force across the channel. Battle of the Hedgerows: a checker board of terrain with high defensive value and slow movement criss-crossed by terrain with roads and low defensive value. The allies could move along the roads but be exposed to deadly attacks from Germans in the hedgerows. Scenario duration: 30 or 40 turns (Days) Objectives: to break out of the German containement and secure a harbor and airfields to support the advance through France to Germany. British units would be very slow(Montgomery) Allies would own the sky (Possibly could leave the Airforce ai-controlled to prevent it from over-achieving?) but be logistically difficult to operate (Fly from Britain to France in 2 turns then return in 2 turns so instant air support would not be available until the capture of local airfields) German tanks would be very superior to Allied tanks and extremely costly to knock out without air support

	28-04-2000 15:50									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I didn't realize I thought it through that well and gave away that much... At least I am consistent.

	28-04-2000 22:16									#12
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Hey Nemo,

I think it's about time you got a promotion!!!

General Nemo

It doesn't have that ring to it, but it fits.


PS-I hereby declare that I will skip any college classes to playtest this! Any idea for tiime of release? Nothing specific...1 month, 5 months?

*wipes even more drool from mouth*

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

	28-04-2000 22:51									#13
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Nemo: is it possible to make the caravans sea units? If it can be done then only port cities gets the supply. You can make island cities (one square of land with huge production) in the ocean as invasion bases to support the armors. Make coastal squares produce zero shield so even if your armors can build cities there they cannot support any unit. Furthermore, cities cannot grow beyond 1 without aqueduct, which cannot be built yet (don't know if settlers can still add to the city).

Or, if you can make caravans air units, then you can keep them from reaching the French coast. They only have enough fuel to reach the invasion bases.

Make the freights extremely expensive since one can support a city per turn regardless how much food it needs.

Two problems: settler armors can always put down a city to avoid being stack-killed. When producing armors the city size reduces.

	28-04-2000 23:29									#14
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I know that sea and air Caravans don't work when trading with other Nations. I have never tried Caravans within a Civ... They might work. That would make for a huge benefit in capturing the only harbors that can take ships! (Le Havre, Cherbourg, St Malo) I can close the British harbors to sea transport and "Give" free supply/caravans ships to the Allies. I will figure out a way to disable city building even it if means creating 150 "neutral cities" at sea...

	28-04-2000 23:57									#15
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Nemo: I think maybe you can produce a 'zone of destruction' where squares were changing every turn (simulating storming weather). If a unit does not have enough moving points and end up in the zone, it will be destroyed. This can produce the effect of 'impassible zone' if moving costs are high. Also if you give caravans low moving points they will not be able to pass the zone.

	30-04-2000 17:55									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You cease to amaze me Captain Nemo!!! Damn, that is good. Xin- you mean a "storm zone" in The Channel, not on land, right? Also another idea is once one gets a port city, a neutral or barbarian "Wrecked Harbor" unit, which would have an invicibly high defense rate, appears, blocking the city from the sea so supplies can't go through it immediately (trademark of how the Germans wrecked coastal cities). After one captures a city later on, something like "Port of Cherbourg is finally reconstructed. Supplies may come through now." would popup and the "Wrecked Harbor" unit would dissappear using the Change Terrain command. I'm looking forward to seeing Patton, Operations Epsom and Cobra, and The Hegderows.... Keep up the good work Nemo!

	01-05-2000 05:12									#17
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Just a progress update:
The naval or air caravans don't work even within a Civ. They act as normal sea/air units so you don't get the "establish route/build wonder" menu.

The "blocked" harbor is a good idea. I may create Liberty ships carrying 0 move units (Can't disembark except in a harbor) at turn X the ships take on the trireme "bit" so if they're not in harbor they're sunk.

Map is 80% done, units 80% done, but the rules, events, icons etc... still need a lot of work.

Does anyone have or know of a site where I can find a very detailed map of Normandy? I have high detail info about the landing areas but I am missing the same level of detail (City names, terrain) outside the immediate landing areas. Map area is Cherbourg-Fécamp-Sées-StMalo

Thanks for your help and support.

	01-05-2000 06:06									#18
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I think I have a good Normandy map. I can mail it to you if you like.

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	01-05-2000 07:38									#19
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Have you tried using Helicopters as a trade unit?

It's an Idea I had but never tried.

	01-05-2000 20:34									#20
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Yes, heli unit or domain 3, combined with 'storming zone'.

	02-05-2000 00:41									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

>Does anyone have or know of a site where I >can find a very detailed map of Normandy?

Any decent college library should have a set of the green hardbound official U.S. history of WWII. I believe the volume for D-Day is called "Cross Channel Attack." The book has a pocket in the back for maps as well as maps throughout.

You also might try--
http://gofrance.about.com/travel/go....htm?once=true&

(I hope that is right--its a site on touring the Normandy beaches, but it has links to numerous other D-Day links).

	02-05-2000 04:01									#22
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Is it possible for helicopter units to carry land units? If so, Nemo, you could use them in the scenario for sea units combined with the storm zone idea.